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Mr. D'Amours. I thank the gentleman from New Jersey. I would 

 now recognize the Representative from Delaware who has been 

 outstanding in his work on behalf of Delaware's interest on this 

 question, and of which I am sure both you and Governor du Pont 

 speak of frequently and glowingly in Delaware. The gentleman 

 from Delaware, Mr. Carper. 



Mr. Carper. I just want to thank you for your kind words and 

 also thank my colleague from New Jersey. I fully intend to keep 

 working in a cooperative spirit with you and other committee 

 members to develop a comprehensive solution to this problem. 



I would like to go back to the question that you raised regarding 

 the use of the 106-mile site for industrial dumping. A report that 

 was recently presented to us by GAO, dated May 18, 1983, talks 

 about the magnitude of that dumping and it indicates that in 1982, 

 apparently one firm in New Jersey, a New Jersey firm going under 

 the name of Dupont used this site. As I understand, it was the only 

 industrial dumping. 



I have one question for Mr. Arbesman — is it a fair assessment of 

 New Jersey's position to say that ocean dumping is not the long- 

 term solution? Is that a fair characterization? 



Mr. Arbesman. No, I don't think it is. There is a bias against 

 ocean dumping. That was the intent of the Marine Protection, Re- 

 search, and Sanctuaries Act. We are at the crossroads where we 

 must make an intelligent judgment. It doesn't rule out ocean 

 dumping, but we have to evaluate impacts of the on-land alterna- 

 tives. We don't think that has to be done up to this point in time. 



Mr. Carper. I missed part of your testimony because I had to be 

 out of the room, but did I understand you to say there are no New 

 Jersey municipalities currently ocean dumping, or did you say they 

 are taking active steps to end that form of disposal? 



Mr. Arbesman. There are a number of utilities that came out of 

 the ocean, smaller utilities with sludges that lend themselves to on- 

 land alternatives, sludge farming and so on. The big utilities that 

 serve industrial areas are the problems we have which are the 

 major disposers of sludge in the ocean at this time. 



Mr. Carper. Ironically, one of the permitees who was an indus- 

 trial dumper at the 106-mile site was the firm which was selling a 

 product used in wastewater treatment and because of the great 

 demand for that product for wastewater treatment over the last 

 couple years, they have not had to dump their industrial wastes. 

 Just a Brownie point I wanted to share with you. 



One last question, it sort of gets to the issue of county ordin- 

 ances, state laws, and perhaps city ordinances. Some jurisdictions, 

 like Philadelphia, appear to have come to grips with land-based al- 

 ternatives and are working on a statewide basis toward finding 

 suitable land-based alternatives. 



When we look at a State like New York, for example, we don't 

 find that kind of cooperation. We find barriers to land-based alter- 

 natives erected at almost every level whether it is local or the state 

 level. 



What kind of barriers or what cooperative spirit exists in your 

 State between different levels of government to better enhance 

 land-based alternatives? 



