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Mr. Everett. The Corps of Engineers is the lead agency in coordi- 
nating the dumping? 
General Groves. The permit is issued in the name of the Secretary 
of the Army ; yes, sir. . 
Mr. Everert. General Groves, I make the same request of you we 
made of Dr. Glasgow: After you have had time to reflect on the bill 
would you provide the committee with suggested amendments that 
would be in keeping with the concern of the Corps of Engineers in 
order to make the bills workable should the committee report one or 
any of the three versions of the bill we have before us today. 
General Groves. We will try, sir. 
Mr. Everert. Mr. Chairman, that is all the questions I have. 
Mr. Dineett. Mr. Murphy. 
Mr. Mureny. General Groves, would you describe for the committee 
the effect that the flow down the Hudson River outside the Hudson 
River cut has on the bight and whether it is the pollution that comes 
down the Hudson River or the bight that has caused the problems in 
the fish area ? 
General Groves. I might just make a very general comment, sir, and 
then pass to Mr. Caldwell here. | 
But the specific cause of this is not yet known, that is why we are 
studying it. As we identify the problem, it appears to us, probably, 
the principal source of pollution is the Hudson River, and beyond that 
I ask Mr. Caldwell to comment in more detail on what it might be. 
Mr. Catpwe tt. I think, sir, we should include the Hudson River 
plus the immediate area of what we call New York Harbor. This in- 
cludes also New York Bay because there is quite a lot of waste disposal 
that is not dumped into what might be called the Hudson River itself, 
but in the lower waters of the bay but not in what we call the bight 
which is the area lying outside Sandy Hook and Coney Island area. 
Actually, I think, if you run it down we would find, and can inden- 
tify, the fact there is much more pollutant dumped into the Hudson 
River plus the lower bay area than there is dumped offshore into the — 
bight itself. 
In fact, there are a number of outfalls that come out into the bight 
area which are not identified with the dumping area. It is going to be 
very difficult to separate the effects of these two because the coastal 
waters in the lower bay and the waters in the bight are intermixed by 
the passage of the tide, back and forth, so that we have certain degrees 
of intermixing which make it as I say very difficult to separate these 
effects. 
But certainly the removal of the material from the dumping area 
will not solve the whole problem because of all of these other pollutants 
that are coming into the area. 
Mr. Murry. What sewer lines are they, from what municipalities ? 
Mr. Caupwe tt. Sir, I think you will find that New York City has 
quite a number of sewage disposal pipes or conduits, or whatever you 
choose to call them, in which a lot of the sewage comes right into the 
bay with not more than primary or secondary treatment. 
Mr. Mourpuy. Sanitary lines? 
Mr. Catpwexu. Yes. Some of these are mixed with the flood runoffs 
from the streets themselves. They are combined sewers which makes 
i a 
