155 
complete treatment somewhat difficult, particularly during the storm 
time. 
Then, of course, we have a lot of the material coming out of Passaic 
Valley and the other areas that come down into the lower bay area. I 
am not familiar with that completely, sir. That could be entered into 
the record for you. I believe those figures are available but I am not 
that familiar with what goes on in the bay area. 
Mr. Murry. But, General, can we have an answer to the cause of 
fin and gill and tail deterioration without knowing just what does cause 
pollution in this area outside of New York Harbor, whether it is the 
Hudson, whether it is the sewer lines, or the bight dumping? 
General Groves. We have always felt we wouldn’t know the answer 
until we study the whole area and that is why we initially are em- 
barked upon the study which you saw last winter as a tot2i compre- 
hensive study of that area to determine what is going on, what is 
wrong, and what ought to be fixed. 
That is what we are trying to do. 
Mr. Murriury. How much did that study cost ? 
General Groves. To date on the New York Bight study under Sandy 
Hook, $280,000. On the New York University is about $50,000. As 
we move on down the line we will identify other things that need to be 
studied. It is very difficult to say at this time what the total cost would 
be. 
Mr. Mureny. At the meeting I had in New York, in June, where the 
corps was represented by Col. James Barnett, the commissioner of 
sewage of the city of New York stated that he felt a complete com- 
puterized study of not just New York Harbor but Jamaica Bay and 
those river areas such as the Passaic River, Hackensack River, the 
Raritan River that contribute to this problem would have to be in- 
cluded in this comprehensive study for any of them to put their finger 
on, let us say, the totality of the problem. 
General Groves. We would certainly agree with that. 
Mr. Morruy. It would be certainly a multidivisional study. 
General Groves. I am speaking purely from recollection, but as I 
recall we were talking in terms of $2 million, $4 million in that range, 
probably for the total problem as we see it now. Of course, as we move 
mto it we become more familiar with the problem and at that point 
the estimate will be very much refined. 
Mr. Murry. Is the fact that you require permits only from Boston, 
New York, and Hampton Roads a recognition of the fact that these 
harbors and these harbor areas are of such size that they create a 
pollution problem because of the size of the area they serve and that 
other estuarine areas don’t pose the same problem and, therefore, 
don’t need the regulation these do. 
General Groves. First, let me say we don’t require the permits in 
Boston. I think to answer your question, the sense of it, historically 
people became concerned in those areas at an earlier date. These date 
from the previous century. In New York it was 1888. Today I think 
the problem is much more universal. 
Today if we were starting over we would probably treat all harbors 
about the same. 
pee 111. 
