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Mr. Murruy. General, what would constitute a safe area to dump / 
General Groves. I don’t want to beg the question, but we would have 
to say, safe with respect to what? Every action we take changes some- 
thing, for better in some instances, for worse in others. 
From a purely ecological standpoint, purely environmental stand- 
point, you probably would do damage wherever you dumped any- 
thing. On the other hand, we recognize that economics, developmental] 
considerations, considerations for the welfare of the total people de- 
mand that we do these things and we put them some place. 
And our problem is to find the place to put them where it will do 
the least damage. I think in absolute terms there isn’t any place you 
could put it without doing damage. 
Mr. Murruy. General, we have some evidence that you issued per- 
mits to municipalities and to private industry to dump in the bight 
area, and yet there is evidence that these dumping operations take 
place from the starting point where the facility or barges have been 
loaded all the way out to the bight area. 
It may be the Coast Guard or the corps should be charged with the 
responsibility for picketing those areas on a more than just a check 
basis. Actually the bight is a little bit more extended right back into 
the harbor and much of the dumping we think takes place outside the 
harbor is done inside the harbor. 
Mr. Dinceiu. Would the gentleman yield ? 
Mr. Mourpuy. Yes. 
Mr. Drncett. This is closely related. 
Would you submit to us, if you please, General, a list of permits 
for persons to dump in this New York Bight area ? 
General Grovss. Certainly, sir. 
Mr. Dinceiy. Which are presently outstanding. 
And also submit to this committee a list of the controls which you 
impose to see to it that the dumpers comply with the law with regard 
to the area in which they dump. 
Am I correct that you do state that they may dump in certain areas 
but may not dump in other areas ? 
General Groves. That is correct. 
Mr. Dineztu. What do you do about a fellow who has a permit to 
dump in one area and dumps in another ? 
General Groves. We become aware of it, sir, depending on the seri- 
ousness of the offense, and it would be diffcult to think of any that 
isn’t serious, under our present policy we would probably take it up 
with the Justice Department. 
Mr. Drncerx. I am going to ask you, then to submit a response to 
that question by letter approriately cleared by your superiors, because 
I think this committee ought to have your policy on that matter. 
General Groves. I will be glad to. 
Mr. Drncxtw. Incidentally, I do wish to know with great precision 
what your department proposes to do because I recognize sometimes 
questions of this kind can be very helpful to your agency in arriving 
at an appropriate method of handling recalcitrants. 
_Mr. Morpry. General, I would like to thank you for the coopera- 
tion of your office and Colonel Barnett for the help he has extended 
to me. He has made available facilities to permit me and many other 
governmental people to go in depth into this problem. 
