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am opposed to, but am looking for a solution to it. I am under the 
impression that the city of New York puts a very large percentage, 
40 or 50 percent of its raw sewage, right into the harbor, notwith- 
standing the fact that the other 50 percent goes from its sewage dis- 
posal system on to the beaches and out into the Bight. 
Mr. Orrincer. It is about 400 billion gallons of raw sewage yearly. 
Mr. Grover. Wouldn’t you think that we would be only accomplish- 
ing half the problem then, by dumping out, if we are, dumping out 
on the Continental Shelf? We still have this tremendous problem of 
New York City. 
Mr. Orrrncer. I don’t believe that you can determine which does 
more damage, but the effect of the sewage sludge and dredge spoil is 
more serious in that it is concentrated in one area and attache the 
benthie resource directly. The raw sewage that is dumped by the city 
of New York is also extremely serious but you do have to start some 
lace. 
The fact that New York City continues to pour raw sewage ito 
the harbor area is no justification for allowing the sewage sludge and 
chemical waste to be dumped in this 21-mile area, to spread until it 
closes the beaches further up on Long Island and in New Jersey. I 
think that both problems have to be attacked immediately. I would be 
100 percent in favor of the Federal Government undertaking the 
entire cost of building the sewage treatment plants that are necessary 
in the area. 
Mr. Grover. If you are ready to direct the barge companies, take 
away their licenses or, in the alternative, say you go out 100 miles to 
sea, this takes care of one-half of the sewage disposition. 
Mr. Orrincer. Then let’s do it now and dump further out. 
Mr. Grover. But are we ready to say to New York City, “Okay, 
you stop dumping raw sewage tomorrow also.” I don’t think that is 
practical, as desirable as it might be. 
Mr. Ortincer. No, I think the proposal for the sludge is practicable. 
My own personal preference for the sewage problem would be to give 
the Corps of Engineers something useful to do for a change. I would 
like to see the Corps of Engineers commissioned to build the sewage 
treatment plants that are needed all over this country. Instead of see- 
ing that agency continue to muck up our environment in one area after 
another. I think that such a project would create a great deal of em- 
ployment that is badly needed at the present time. Why not have the 
Corps of Engineers put to the constructive work of building the sew- 
age treatment plants that are needed all over this country and that 
municipalities just can’t afford to build ? 
Mr. Grover. Have you explored the international law aspects, the 
treaty aspects of our dumping in the sea waters that far out? Has that 
been explored, whether there are any treaties involved ? 
_ Mr. Orrrncer. There are none that I know of, but I can’t say that I 
have made any indepth study. There are no treaties involved that we 
know of except treaties with Canada with respect to the Great Lakes 
and Lake Champlain. 
Mr. Grover. I may say that I am in agreement with you that the 
Federal Government should expand its activities in the area of assist- 
