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to call in several companies who are involved in developing these 
rocesses and get their testimony as to what they think can be done 
Im a realistic and practical way with the sludge, now the center of 
controversy. 
Mr. Frey. I believe yesterday a witness from Texas told us of some 
experiments which have been made. 
r. Dincetx. I do not recall the particular matter the gentleman is 
referring to. 
Mr. Frey. Dr. Glasgow testified at some length about experiments 
that were being done. Possibly we could hear some of that at the same 
time. Apparently these are large-scale experiments that are being car- 
ried on right now. 
Mr. Karra. I think if we had one or two of the industrial firms 
that apparently have done considerable research in this area and have 
some kind of workable process going, to give us testimony with respect 
to what they think the cost of doing this might be, it wouid give us an 
opportunity to give a final judgment on the bill. 
Mr. Howarp. If I may comment, I feel very strongly that Mr. 
Karth’s suggestion is what the Public Works Committee or this com- 
mittee must do next, to call in the scientists who are working in the 
field and other scientists to get this information. I feel that cannot be 
overlooked in merely trying to find how far out we should put the 
sludge at the present time. 
Mr. Dincetxi. Mr. Dellenback ? 
Mr. Detiensack. I was particularly struck, Mr. Howard, not only 
by your prepared testimony, but by your additional comments, be- 
cause if it has gotten to the point where, out in the middle of the ocean 
we do not have pure, clean water, as you indicated this man who just 
came through there finds it polluted, then this adds another dimension 
to the problem. 
Mr. Howarp. He did mention the difference between this trip and 
the trip on the Kon Tiki which he took in 1947, in the Pacific, where 
he marveled day after day at the absolute purity of the ocean, and 
he observed the change that had taken place since that time. 
Mr. Detienpack. It does emphasize, it seems to me, the absolute im- 
perative not only of moving nationally, but internationally, because 
we can set up all the standards we want for New York and it does not 
take care of the rest of the east coast. We can set up all the standards 
we want in the United States and that does not take care of all of the 
other nations and shorelines that are on the very same ocean. 
I feel it very important, Mr. Chairman, that what we do should be 
broad in scope, broad enough to cover not just the area off New York 
and New Jersey, not just the United States, but we certainly should 
be urging that we sit down with the nations of the world and be look- 
ing at the total, overall problem. It is one small world. : 
Mr. Detienpack. I appreciate very much the valuable testimony 
you have given us. i 
Mr. Howarp. I thank you, Mr. Dellenback, and I will be happy to 
send you a copy of my resolution calling for an international environ- 
mental agency which [ will resubmit tomorrow. 
Mr. Drncett. I agree with the gentleman from Oregon. 
