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Mr. Frey ? 
Mr. Frey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 
I can well appreciate the problem up along the New Jersey shore. 
You hit on one thing that bothers me. Your bill, H.R. 18454, says we 
should establish standards of damage to the natural environment and 
ecology. The problem we face is how can you get there from here? I 
think from what we seem to know about it and what we seem to learn, 
we are going to do damage. 
We face a two-step process, as you so ably pointed out. One, we are 
going to do damage which cannot be minimized at the moment. I was 
struck by the thing you and Mr. Dellenback were talking about. It is 
apparent if we go outside 30 miles, no matter where we go, there just 
isn’t enough ocean left. 
Secondly, the thrust of your statement, I think, is that what we can 
do remains to be resolved. As you so ably point out, we are in a 
dilemma. 
Let me ask you one question about the 30-mile limit you were dis- 
cussing. Have any of the research people you have talked to been able 
to estimate the extent of the damage that will be caused by dumping 
somewhere outside 30 miles? 
Mr. Howarp. Other than it will be farther from the shore and it 
ee se a 
will be out beyond where almost all of the marine reproduction goes — 4 
on. It will take it out of the active marine ecological area. 
Mr. Frey. How about the currents and tides? Have you any idea 
where it will end up ? 
Mr. Howarp. I would presume it will go north and east of there. 
Tt will cause trouble. There is no doubt about it. It is now right in the 
heart of the area, not just close to the beaches, but where all of the 
marine life and reproduction goes on. Until we find the answer to the 
problem we discussed before, the first thing is to move it to an area 
it will do less damage at the present time. 
Mr. Grover. Has there been any study or contact with the towing 
companies to determine whether they are equipped and whether their 
facilities meet Coast Guard standards and are suitable for the longer 
trip ? 
We Howarp. There was discussion about the question which the 
Governor of New Jersey urged, that it go out 100 miles. Without the 
figures which I presume the Corps of Engineers or some people could 
give to you, there would be a tremendous cost because of the higher 
swells and waves, and they would need additional and larger equip- 
ment. They might be out there for 2 or 3 days at a time making this 
long trip, so they would need double crews to handle the problem. 
It would seem to me that if we were to feel this 100-mile limit would . 
be the solution, we would be spending an awful lot of money on new ~ 
equipment and on more crews, and very possibly spending money 
which could be well used in sewage treatment plants and toward 
control of pollution. 
It is almost a diminishing return type of thing. 
As for the 30-mile limit, there would not be that big a problem, but 
there would be quite substantial additional expense. 
Mr. Grover. Has the fishing agreement which we have entered into 
with the Russians been taken into. consideration? There are several 
