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Mr. Miva. I want to say I, too, was struck by the statement of my 
colleague from California, because I think what he was urging the 
subcommittee to do was a very eloquent plea for what I was hoping 
the subcommittee would do, and that is, not to look for only the short- 
range answer. The New York Bight obviously is a very serious prob- 
lem, not only to New Yorkers but everybody else, but the New York 
Bight is only a small bite of the whole problem, because in fact the 
entire ocean is the problem, which is why I would urge the subcom- 
mittee to give serious attention to the bill proposed by our colleague 
from Massachusetts, Mr. Harrington, and, indeed, to go even beyond 
that and think seriously about the efficacy and wisdom of a bill which 
would say that everybody under U.S. jurisdiction, those who are U.S. 
citizens, who are actually dumping off our coasts, and U.S. citizens or 
U.S. flagships anywhere in the world, are prohibited frein using the 
oceans as garbage cans. These bodies of water have too many precious 
needs to be used in such a wasteful manner. 
To take up what Congressman Miller urged on you, a serious push 
by our country to get international agreements about the use of the 
oceans for dumping, perhaps I am not quite so pessimistic as the 
previous witness in that respect. I was struck by the fact that under 
the auspices of UNESCO the 70-nation International Oceanography 
Commission has in fact been meeting since 1961. They are sponsoring 
a cooperative program now involving research on the Mediterranean 
Sea involving some 20 nations, including—and I would urge you to 
listen who is involved in this combine—the Soviet Union, Israel, 
Syria, and our own Government. If you can put all those nations 
down at one table on the Mediterranean Sea, it seems to me there 
would be reasonable hope of finding some kind of agreement on the 
use of the oceans generally. 
We had a planner that we did not pay much attention to, by the 
name of Daniel Burnham. We have been quoting him ever since he 
died. He had a slogan about Chicago: “Make No Small Plans.” 
I would urge this subcommittee to make no small plans about this 
very large problem. While I hope that, whatever else happens, the 
problems that so concern our New York colleagues and the New York 
Bight are solved immediately, I also hope this subcommittee does not 
think that is the end of the line, because the bodies of water that are 
really our own permanent heritage are fast becoming endangered. 
Tam troubled by what our colleague from New York, Mr. Ottinger, 
suggested as even a temporary solution for sewage by dumping it 30 
miles out. As Mr. Miller pointed out, you are still on the shelf at that 
point, and you are probably going to get that stuff washed right back 
in where it was. 
Mr. Heyerdahl during his recent journey pointed out there were 
many days in the middle of the ocean that he found the water unfit 
for swimming because of oil spills and other wastes and debris in 
the middle of the ocean. 
I think our plans will be expensive, as Mr. Grover pointed out. They 
will not come cheap. But they will be a lot less expensive than some 
of the things we are now considering for the Great Lakes if we com- 
