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Mr. Dincetu. The Chair wishes to commend you for a very fine state- 
ment, and also for a very fine job of public interest. You are certainly 
to be commended for the vigor with which you approach these matters. 
The chair is very happy to recognize our good friend and very able 
Member of this committee, Mr. Keith. 
Mr. Kerru. Senator, it is good to have you here. I would like to point 
out, Mr. Chairman, that you and I have talked at length about marine 
sanctuaries. The State of Massachusetts has moved ahead in this area 
within their own jurisdiction. I testified before Senator Moakley’s 
committee on this subject of marine sanctuaries off the Cape Cod Na- 
tional Seashore. I believe I was not only the only Member of Congress, 
but one of the few Members of the legislative branch to testify at that 
hearing, and the bill did go through and has been signed into law just 
recently by the Governor, has it not ? 
Senator Moaxtey. That is right, Congressman. In fact, your testi- 
mony was very helpful to the committee, because we know of your 
longstanding fight in this same area, and we appreciated very much 
having your expertise into the Massachusetts Legislature. 
Mr. Kerry. You said earlier that there was a time problem. We 
have another witness, and I wonder how much time we are going to 
have. I would like to ask some questions of Senator Moakley. 
Mr. Dincett. Feel free to ask questions. 
Mr. Kerru. You mentioned zero pollution standards for thermal 
and radiation discharge in the coastal waters from any nuclear facili- 
ties. Bearing in mind that we have a $65 million nuclear plant at 
Plymouth, I would like to know literally what you mean by this? 
Senator Moax ey. It is very simple, Mr. Congressman. The Atomic 
Energy Commission, when they allow these nuclear plants to go into 
operation, did not take into consideration thermal pollution. In fact, 
they disregarded it as something not within their jurisdiction. Now 
they see that thermal pollution is a threat and it is a problem, and I 
feel that no water should be allowed to increase in any degree. I think 
cooling towers should be installed so that the plants could be cooled, 
and the water would remain the same. 
1 think in Michigan or some State, that it just came out with an 
edict that the water couldn’t be increased 1 percent. 
Mr. Drncett. One degree? 
Senator Moaxtey. One degree. 
Mr. Dincertu. One degree. It was our State. No, I beg your pardon, 
it was the Federal Government that came out with 1° going into the 
Great Lakes. ‘I'he State of Michigan wanted to go 28°. We are hopeful 
that the State will not prevail. 
Senator Moaxtey. Dr. Barry Commoner, Mr. Chairman, one of 
the leading ecologists, stated that if the thermal pollution were al- 
lowed, that is, if all these nuclear plants as proposed and on the draw- 
ing board were allowed to go into operation, by the year 2010 all our 
rivers would be boiling and would be used just to cool our nuclear 
plants. I feel this is something we cannot stand, so I feel this shouldn’t 
be allowed to be increased any degree. I think that we have the sophis- 
tication and we have the expertise to do this now. It may be a little 
more ee but I think we owe it to the people and to the Com- 
monwealth of Massachusetts to make this effort. 
