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Mr. Downine. That is the point I am making. 
Mr. Fascetu. That is right. . 
I understand it thoroughly. We have to find a way to have this 
progress and still substantially keep our environment. It is the $64 
question of all time. How we are going to do that is a challenge to 
test the ingenuity of man. But it has to be done if we are going to 
live at all. We are certainly not going to be able to turn the clock back | 
on our societies. 
Mr. Downtne. That is my opinion, too. Thank you so much. 
Mr. Dincett. Mr. Rogers. 
Mr. Roegrrs. I have no questions. 
I think the problem has been pointed up very vividly. The action 
is needed. We had this pointed out through recent actions taken by 
the DOD. I think, as you say, that the Congress and the people are 
in the mood now. They want something done to stop this. 
Mr. Fascetu. This committee has exerted tremendous leadership. 
They have great courage. I have no doubt when they get through with 
the consideration of these matters pending before them, we will have 
some very significant and forward-looking legislation. 
Mr. Drncety. Mr. McCloskey. 
Mr. McCuroskey. Thank you. 
I have two questions, Mr. Fascell. I notice in your bill, H.R. 18913, 
you recommend the certification by the Council on Environmental 
Quality as to the plan. I wonder if you could comment on the problem 
that we face as to the definition of which jurisdiction is to handle this . 
kind of a thing. We all agree it ought to be done. We have the Corps 
of Engineers carrying out the Refuge Act of 1899 with the jurisdiction 
that is somewhat in question because of our creation of the Water 
Standard Quality Act. We have the Corps of Engineers, the State 
water quality people and the Federal water quality people. You sug- 
gest the Council of Environmental Quality, yet we have the En- 
vironment Protection Agency which has the money which the Coun- 
cil would need if it would do what you suggest. 
Finally, we have created another agency with jurisdiction over the 
ocean. I wonder if you have any thought as to which of these agencies 
might be the best to carry on the policing of dumping into the oceans, 
and the estuaries and tributaries. 
Mr. Fascetx. Of course, you put your finger on a very important 
point. A normal problem in eovernment; and that is proliferation. 
We have the coordination problem right now. It has to be met head 
on, it seems to me, as part of and as a matter of national policy. That 
is important. 
However, we are headed in that direction both administratively and 
legislatively. Perhaps not fast enough, but we have had growing pains 
in this area so we have a proliferation that we will stumble around 
with for some time. We will have to solve the problem you identified. 
My thought is to get all the questions into a civilian agency as close 
to the White House as possible. 
Mr. McCuosxey. Granted the Council has the jurisdiction, but no 
money or staff or really intention of carrying out that kind of en- 
forcement. 
Mr. Fascern. They are and maybe ought to remain simply a policy 
organization with no operational responsibility. 
