1:17 



They had to go into the oceanographic business, and did it, and did 

 a fine job, to determine where icebergs were going to be from the point 

 of view of the determination of the geostrophic currents of the Arctic. 



There is no conflict that I see. 



Mr. Lennon. What activities has the Department of the Interior 

 engaged in in tlie field of the sea? 



Captain Batjer. To determine what you need to know about the 

 biota of the sea, you have to determine the parameters that permit 

 the little beasties to live in the sea and grow. Without a knowledge 

 of that, you are poorly looking at only one part of the entire problem. 



The Bureau of Commercial Fisheries very early went into the 

 oceanographic picture. They have done a terrific job. 



Mr. Lennon. Captain, I don't want to be critical, but I recall just 

 last year, perhaps a little later than it is now, but a little over a year 

 ago, we were faced with this estuary bill, prepared legislation, and the 

 Department of the Interior testified here before this committee, and 

 they made it crystal clear that in their judgment the legislation was 

 not needed, that they had the authority to move in this direction, but 

 yet they have not moved. 



Now, the gentleman who is chairman of the Subconmiittee on Fish 

 and Wildlife is holding hearings today, because the Department of 

 the Interior, in spite of its representations before this committee that 

 it had the authority under existing law, has not moved. He is now 

 holding hearings on the general type of creating a commission to study 

 this thing. 



I have not been too enthused always with the aggressive attitude on 

 the part of the Department of the Interior to involve itself in these 

 matters. 



Captain Batjer. Mr. Chairman, if I may make a remark to that, I 

 think one of the biggest things that needs to be faced up to by the 

 Congress is the realization of the effect of the Bureau of the Budget on 

 what is testified to the various congressional committees by repre- 

 sentatives of the agencies and departments. 



As you well know, no one can make a statement before this com- 

 mittee, or any committee of the House or Senate without first having 

 it approved and edited by the Bureau of the Budget. 



Their editorial operations are not necessarily coincident with the 

 needs of the scientific community or the teclinological conmiunity. Far 

 from it. They have no capability in science. 



So if the Department of the Interior personally feels that they 

 should support a venture, and the Bureau of the Budget says, "No, you 

 don't," they don't ! That is why I am very ^lad to be able to talk here as 

 a private citizen, because I can say these things, and I am sure that you 

 know it. 



I have seen our clerk running around in a panic, "Are all of the 

 reports in from the various people concerned with the legislation?" 



Well, all of the reports were sitting over on one desk, in the Bureau 

 of the Budget, being paper massaged, edited, and so on, and until the 

 Bureau of the Budget permits the agencies to testify as to their 

 opinion, we are going to get nowhere by looking at departmental testi- 

 mony. 



One of the biggest difficulties that I had here on the staff, and I am 

 sure counsel will agree, and I am sure you will agree, was to find out 



