118 



what are the proper questions to bring the departmental beliefs on 

 legislation. If you asked them a proper question, they will tell you, but 

 they certainly will not make their true beliefs in their opening state- 

 ment. 



I wish that you could do something about that. 



Mr. Lennon. You will recall. Captain, that in the hearings, and they 

 were extensive and properly so, on the legislation that established the 

 Commission and the Council, that there were a number of Members of 

 Congress who openly advocated at that time — and that has been more 

 than 2 years ago — ^the establishment of what people have described as 

 a wet NASA, as the only basis on which we could move forward in the 

 marine science field, and their argument was strong, and well put, that 

 until such time as you had a Government structure of this type, that 

 you would never be able to overcome their inability to get projects 

 favorably and reasonably funded by the Bureau of the Budget. 



You and I know that the Navy has, and I think properly so, over 

 the years has claimed not only the lion's share, but most of the money 

 that has been obtained in the field of marine science, on the philosophy 

 of a national defense posture related to antisubmarine warfare. 



I have come to this conclusion very, very slowly, because I was not 

 one who favored bringing together the marine science spectrum from 

 the agencies and departments where those marine science activities 

 were related to the missions and roles of a particular agency or bureau. 

 But I have come to the conclusion that the only way that you are going 

 to move this program forward at a national level, with the participa- 

 tion of the Federal Government providing the leadership, and the 

 universities and colleges and private sector, is to bring it together under 

 an organization such as has been suggested by the Commission report. 



Whether or not it should be an independent agency, or whether it 

 should be all lumped together and put in one of the existing agencies 

 of the Federal Government, I do not know. 



There are a lot of people who believe that the only way we will ever 

 again have a viable maritime program is an independent agency, and 

 it has almost been proven to be true, as you know. We just don't have 

 one. 



I think it is most important that you came here this early in the 

 hearings, and they will certainly last through this month. Speaking of 

 the National Council, I have in my files a letter from Dr. Wenk to the 

 effect, No. 1, that they have been instructed to make a study in depth 

 of the Commission's report, and to make their recommendations to 

 the Chief Executive. 



I had a letter from him this morning saying that he expected to be 

 able to present the position of the National Council, based on this 

 study and its recommendations, to the Chief Executive by sometime 

 approximately the middle of June, and the hearings will be, of course, 

 continued to that time. 



We want to do what is best. I think you know this to be a fact, and 

 realize what we are trying to do. We are searching to find out what is 

 best in the national interest. 



If you are right, I hope we go that way. If you are wrong, I hope 

 we go the other way. That is all I can tell you. We want you to know 

 that we are grateful for your interest and your concern in this matter. 



