190 



Mr. Lennon. I guess the reason I got into this was your statement 

 on page 3, and I quote: 



Engineering in its modern and broadest sense is the application of knowledge 

 for the use and benefit of mankind. In this context, engineers are concerned not 

 only with the broad technological application of science, but with their econom- 

 ical, social, and political interaction with man, who thus becomes part of our 

 total systems thinking. Ocean engineering is that portion of engineering con- 

 cerned with the marine environment, and as in all engineering, spans all modes 

 of professional practice from planning, development, design, construction, man- 

 ufacturing, operations, and management to research and teaching. 



That is the reason, doctor, that I thought you had moved out as you 

 indicated that engineers are not just concerned with the broad tech- 

 nical application of science but that you had the economic, social, and 

 political interaction that you said you had in your statement. 



That is why I inquired into your basic thinking with respect to how 

 your group, since you had had this rapport with so many of our agen- 

 cies from the State Department on down, reacted to some of the spe- 

 cific recommendations made in this so-called Stratton report. 



I yield back to the gentleman from California. 



Mr. Hanna. There was only one other point that I wanted to make 

 with the witness, Mr. Chairman. 



That is that I have personally entertained the concept that, in addi- 

 tion to and supplemental to any new configuration of depth for the 

 activities of the ocean, we ought to define and embark on mission- 

 oriented activity. It is my belief that this would develop not only a 

 new generation of information, but also a very salutary intermix of 

 all these things that you and I have just been discussing. This 

 would help us evolve a better frame in the Government for handling 

 this very important aspect of environment. 



What is your reaction to that ? In other words, I am an old Lewis 

 and Clark man. I like to get somebody in a group and get out there 

 doing some things that feed us back from a practical level of living 

 with the activities, how you are going to control it and the best manner 

 in which to make it interact. What is your reaction ? 



Dr. Kavajstagh. Well, I think I have indicated to you that there is 

 an important need, and I think the Commission has recognized the 

 need for more technology in the oceans, and here I say we are talking 

 in an engineering sense of the application of the knowledge that we 

 have. 



But this doesn't mean that we have all the knowledge available. We 

 need more. This very exploration program that I used as an illustra- 

 tion, this Decade program, is one where we need more exploratory 

 knowledge upon which to base, for exam_ple, our mineral recoveries 

 from the sea. We don't have sufficient survey and basic data as to loca- 

 tions of minerals to make this profitable. So, one of the constraints that 

 we face is lack of knowledge or insufficiency. 



Mr. Hanna. Apart from that, though, what I am interested in is : 

 Do you agree, or disagree, that, before we start getting too frozen in 

 cement about how we want to configure these things, it would be 

 well to have some activity going on as a prime work of reference as 

 to how this thing is really going to function ? 



Do you think we should wait until we have set up a new acceptable 

 framework, or should we be moving ahead in terms of mission-oriented 

 activity ? 



