289 



State Department is directing more of its attention to the fishing prob- 

 lems of the United States today than is our Bureau of Commercial 

 Fisheries. 



I indeed wonder how we can protect our fishing industry and our 

 fishermen and their livelihoods under these conditions, and if we create 

 a department or agency which has oceanography and basic research 

 and all tlie other matters that come within marine science, how we are 

 going to get the State Department into this picture without letting 

 them run away with the ball ? 



Dr. Paul ik,' you said in your statement that you confessed less per- 

 sonal enthusiasm for the Commission's recommendations concerning 

 international fisheries affairs. Could I get you to comment on the basis 

 of what I have said? 



Dr. Paulik. I think I also said that these problems are enormously 

 complicated. 



]Mr. Pelly. In Peru, today, we are finding that out. 



Dr. Paulik. I was reacting to the Commission's specific recommen- 

 dations for an overall catch quota of cod and haddock in the N'orth 

 Atlantic. I feel that such a quota is far too simple a solution for a 

 problem of this complexity, involving several different stocks of fish. 

 The real problem is to limit in some way the total fishing effort in the 

 North Atlantic. 



I support the Commission's recommendations for strengthening and 

 extending our bilateral and multilateral agreements. Some of these 

 have worked very well. 



]Mr. Pellt. Halibut is an example. 



Dr. Paulik. Yes, sir. 



Mr. Pellt. In the establishment of a new agency we are going to 

 have to recognize that the State Department will play a very prominent 

 role in all matters having to do with research and conservation and 

 indeed the protection of our own industry. 



Dr. Paulik. Yes. I don't think that a new ocean agency would in 

 any way detract from the role of the State Department. In fact, I 

 think such an agency would enhance the State Department's role by 

 providing a much sounder base of factual information for their recom- 

 mendations. 



I think many of our present difficulties arise from mutual mis- 

 understandings and suspicions of different nations. If we had a sounder 

 base of knowledge, it would be simpler to reach more equitable agree- 

 ments in the international area. Wliere agreements are not reached, 

 it is likely we will destroy the resources to the detriment of all the 

 participating parties. I think that strengthening our scientific capa- 

 bility in these areas would provide the State Department with the 

 ability to recommend programs which would function perhaps better 

 than those we are working under today. 



Mr. Pellt. Under agreement with the Soviet Union we have mutual 

 arrangements for research and we have found out for example on the 

 Pacific that the supply of perch is dangerously low and we were able 

 to reach agreement with the Soviets that they will not take perch. 

 These are things that I want to satisfy myself are going to go on in 

 spite of any new agency that is set up. You think it could be actually 

 improved ? 



