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Dr. Paulik. I certainly hope that it would not only go on, but that 

 we would improve our ability to make these agreements with other 

 nations. I think the Commission's report supported this type of activ- 

 ity very strongly. They recommended that many of the international 

 agencies have their own scientific staffs patterned after the Inter- 

 American Tropical Tuna Commission, the Pacific Halibut Commis- 

 sion and the Pacific Salmon Fisheries Commission. 



Mr. Pelly. Of course, I think we all recognize that we do have a 

 very able man in the State Department in Dr. Donald McKernan. 



Dr. Paulik. Yes. 



Mr. Pelly. I don't know, frankly, what we would do without him. 



Dr. Paulik. We are very fortunate. 



Mr. Pelly. We can't expect to always have a person that has as good 

 a background and is trained in science as well as the practical aspects. 

 I think maybe you have answered me. I want to think about it a lot 

 and I would like any other comments. 



Dr. Calhoun. I would like to respond briefly to the first comment 

 you made. It isn't that I, as a scientist, 'am unwilling to talk about 

 organization. As a scientist I have opinions on many things. I simply 

 don't want to present an organization question as a scientific matter, 

 and we were trying to make the point that as scientists we all have 

 varying opinions on this. 



Mr. Pelly. A political-scientific question. 



Dr. Calhoun". I would say this as a personal observation. My own 

 views are that it is very important that any organizational structure 

 be done at the highest level. This is why I have expressed myself per- 

 sonally as being in favor of a major reorganization somewhat akin to 

 the reorganization we made with the Department of Defense. 



I personally would opt for creating a new Department of Resources 

 and Environments, one unit of which would be a subdepartment on 

 oceans and atmospheres. This is only a personal view. 



I think it is time, however, that we gave to some top-level person in 

 the executive this responsibility and let him reorganize the units in a 

 way that would get the job done just as we did in the Department of 

 Defense. They created in Defense an Office of Defense Eesearch and 

 Engineering, which supports the whole establishment. 



It seems to me that if we had a Department of Resources and En- 

 vironments, the Secretary of that Department could create a similar 

 internal structure, an Office of Environmental Resource Research and 

 Engineering. Congress wouldn't have to tell him how to organize it. 

 They would tell him to get on with doing the natural resource job, 

 one part of which is the oceans. 



Mr. Pelly. I think you are a good political scientist. Dr. Calhoun, 

 because I think 3''ou have offered a very practical way in which this 

 could work very efficiently. 



Dr. Calhoux. Of course this is predicted on the assumption that 

 within our total executive we have too many units, and this is why I 

 personally in all my testimony have not used the word independent 

 in talking 'about a new agency. I think we have too many individual 

 agencies, and I would rather see some consolidation. So, if we make a 

 bold move like we made when we put the Department of Defense 

 together, and get all of these questions coming up with respect to 

 resources and environments ancl put them in one package under a 

 Secretary and tell him to get on with the job, we wouldn't have to 



