310 



future to talk in terms of a billion dollar budget because that is not a 

 great deal more than what Ave are spending this year. 



Mr. Clotwortht. May I cover this in two parts ? On page 258 of 

 "Our Nation and the Sea," the report of the Commission, the second 

 paragraph says : 



The 1969 budgets for the agencies and programs which would be immediately 

 transferred to NOAA under the Commission's organization plan total $773 million. 



I believe there is a breakdown in the text of what portion of each 

 of the existing agencies' budgets would be transferred into NOAA and 

 how that figure would be derived. 



Mr. MosHER. Would the gentleman yield ? 



Mr. Karth. Yes. 



Mr. MosHER. That would include some of the land activities pres- 

 ently operating, wouldn't it; the Weather Bureau and so forth? This 

 figure would include that ? 



Mr. Clotworthy. That would include the Weather Bureau; yes. 

 They go on to say, "Other activities which might be transferred to the 

 agency at a later date would add an additional $36 million." 



I think it is important to distinguish that in the Commission's 

 recommendation for the expenditure of some $8 billion over a 10-year 

 period, they are talking about $8 billion in addition to the funds that 

 are presently being spent by these agencies. 



Mr. MosHER. I think that is very important. 



Mr. Clotwortht. So that the annual budget then goes to well over 

 a billion dollars. 



Mr. Karth. Thank you very much. 



In your statement you refer specifically to civilian oceanography 

 activities, and I am not sure that this figure includes just civilian ocean- 

 ography activities but includes things that might be performed by 

 these agencies that they are suggesting be transferred, other than that. 



Mr. Clotwortht. Yes ; that is true. 



Mr. MosHER. Will the gentleman yield again ? 



It is obviously not only an accounting problem, but a problem of 

 definitions. 



Mr. Karth. I am willing to accept your definition if you can sub- 

 stantiate it a little better. Thank you very much. 



Mr. Clotwortht. Perhaps I can find the breakdown reference in 

 the Commission report and pass that to counsel after the hearing if 

 that is OK. 



Mr. Karth. Thank you very much. 



Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Hathaway. Mr. Clotworthy, we thank you again for your ex- 

 cellent statement which will be extremely helpful to us when we con- 

 sider this in executive session. 



I want to say that Congressman Rogers asked me to apologize to- 

 you for the fact that he had to leave early. He had a prior commitment 

 which he couldn't avoid. 



Thank you very much. 



Mr. Clotwortht. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



