358 



Mr. Lennon. That reminds me of a hearing that was held in this 

 room on June 21, 1961, by this same committee on oceanography. The 

 Committee on Oceanography actually had been in being at that time 

 a little over a year chaired then by our distinguished friend Hon. 

 George Miller from California. 



It was at that hearing that we had appear before us Prof. Edwin J. 

 B. Lewis of the George Washington School of Government, Business 

 and International Atfairs, and he had been asked to make a study in 

 depth and to make his appearance before the committee on that date, 

 June 21, 1961, to make a recommendation concerning a bill that was 

 then pending before the committee which would, in effect, establish 

 a National Oceanograpliic Council, a nonoperating agency. 



In that connection the then ranking member of this committee was 

 the distinguished gentleman from Michigan, Mr. Dingell, and I quote 

 now from page 12 of that statement. 



Mr. Dingell addressing himself to the then Professor Lewis : 



That is a pretty strong statement. I happen to agree with you on it. But is it 

 your opinion that we are in a welter of confusion in this oceanographic program 

 of ours? 



Professor Lewis. The reading I have done on the subject has led me to that 

 conclusion, Mr. Dingell. 



Mr. Dingell. All right. Now, let us go a step further. Is it your conclusion that 

 the ad hoc agency set up by Executive order is going to clear up this problem? 



Then speaking of the Interagency Committee — 



Professor Lewis. I would say that the ad hoc agency set up administratively 

 has been functioning for some time, and there has been little apparent improve- 

 ment in the program organization during that interval of time. 



Then I was recognized and said : 



Mr. Chairman, since I have been a member of this committee, since early last 

 year, I have waited patiently for just the statement that Professor Lewis has 

 brought out today. We have wallowed in a morass of testimony from the various 

 agencies of the Federal Government as to what it was doing and intended to do in 

 this field of oceanography, and all the while I sat and listened I have been 

 wondering when someone at the management level would come here and suggest 

 how we could put this program together. 



The gentleman to my left was very charitable in his remarks, in which he stated 

 he agreed with you, in substance, with respect to your statement as found on 

 page 12. 



I think the guts of your statement are found on page 6, beginning at line 6 and 

 ending at line 14. I do not see how anyone who attended a majority of these hear- 

 ings could fail to agree with you. 



The Chairman of the Interagency Committee on Oceanography, the Assistant 

 Secretary of the Navy, testified day before yesterday, and he indicated that even 

 this legislation was not necessary, in his judgment. The representative of the 

 Bureau of the Budget on the same day testified in his opinion the legislation was 

 not necessary ; that we were making all the progress that seamed to be necessary 

 in this important field. 



Of oceanography 



I think we have got to decide once and for all : Is this an imiKJilant program, 

 sufliciently so as to estalilish a separate and independent agency for the adminis- 

 tration of it? 



I am led to believe that it is. Perhaps others may not be. 



You say — 



Speaking then to the j)rof essor — 



this is the minimum. You have made three suggestions. You say this is the mod- 

 erate course, the minimum that we can do. And you say even the provisions of 

 this bill, in your judgment, will not meet what you see for the future in this 



