360 



Mr. Hanna. If the Chairman will yield, I would like to make an 

 observation as to what my experience leads me to conclude in the State 

 of California when they moved even a step further, and instead of 

 having- an interdepartmental committee, they established a sort of a 

 masterhouse of natural resources. It was my observation that prior to 

 that they had disorganized chaos, and subsequent to that, they had 

 organized chaos, and we didn't have too much output that was supe- 

 rior but it was a lot better organized. 



Mr, Lexnon. I don't know which of you gentlemen came in first, 

 Mr. Karth or Mr. Downing. I recognize whichever one came in first. 

 Mr. Downing. 



Mr. Downing. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



I am sorry that I didn't hear the gentleman's testimony. I was at 

 another committee meeting. I read the statement and it is an excellent 

 statement, but one with which I do not agree, and I find it a little 

 hard to understand because you are definitely interested in 

 oceanography. 



What is Alpine doing now, Mr. Beckmann ? What is it engaged in 

 now? 



Mr. Beckmann. Manufacture of oceanographic equipment for sale 

 to competitors, academic institutions, governments. We make marine 

 protein concentrate which is fish protein concentrate. 



Mr. Downing. Are you selling that commercially now ? 



Mr. Beckmann. No, we are not. We work in some fish product areas, 

 including salmon and crab's. We perform oceanographic surveys for 

 foundation work for offshore towers, bridges, tunnels, and we do quite 

 a bit of oceanographic surveys in connection with A.'S.W. problem and 

 application of various types of sonar. 



We have five tankers and bulk carriers which we use to carry grains^ 

 coal, ammonium sulfate, and we have three leases for offshore mining 

 rights in Cornwall, the south island in New Zealand, and in North 

 Carolina. 



Mr. Downing. Do I understand your statement correctly to mean 

 that you would rather have the effort go on as it is now, mostly in the 

 hands of private industry, rather than have the Government intervene 

 with a Federal organization ? Would that be a correct interpretation 

 of your statement? 



Mr. Beckmann. No, I don't believe I meant to say that, if I did. 

 I think that there should be Federal direction to oceanography, but 

 I don't think that the way to give the Federal direction would be 

 to make another operating agency or to bring together various pieces 

 of different operating agencies into this group. 



I would rather see it as I stated with a steering committee which 

 defines missions, plans long-range objectives together with a nonoper- 

 ating agency which provides the funding and makes up its own mind 

 as to who gets the funds to solve the problems, whether they go ta 

 various Government agencies, they go to various universities, or they 

 go to different industries. 



Mr. Hanna. Or combinations. 



Mr. Beckmann. Or combinations thereof. 



Mr. Downing. I respect your judgment, but I do disagree with you^ 



Thank you very much. 



Mr. Lennon. Mr. Karth. 



