460 



Dr. Hargis. No. I think that it would be perhaps a little better to 

 phrase it this way, Congressman Downing. 



That is, that the Commission during its deliberations apparently 

 became aware that the States do have major responsibility in the 

 coastal zone and should be encouraged to assume their responsibilities 

 and in this we concur. 



Now, my major concern over the last 4 or 5 years has been that as we 

 talked about a national oceanographic program we should be sure that 

 it is a national rather than a Federal oceanographic program — which 

 this committee the Subcommittee on Oceanography has itself urged, 

 and that in the past the States have not, either through their own 

 neglect or for one reason or another, expressed an effective concern and 

 involvement in the development of a national oceanographic program. 

 I hope that this will change. 



Mr. Downing. I have one last question. 



This is really not in connection with the statement. The Navy as 

 you know is thinking about getting rid of 10 nuclear submarines. It 

 has been suggested that one of them could be turned over to the NOAA 

 for oceanographic use. Does this sound feasible to you ? 



Dr. Hargis. Well, I think that you have me a little bit out of my 

 element. We are primarily interested, of course, in the Continental 

 Shelf and so forth but I would say that the use of submersibles in 

 oceanographic work is developing. I would think that any such pro- 

 posal as this would have to be examined extremely carefully in terms 

 of its costs and payouts. 



There may be some submersibles that have been developed that would 

 be much more useful and perhaps less costly. So that, with the note 

 that I am not an authority on the subject and, therefore, my statement 

 should be considered as such, I would say that we ought to look at any 

 such proposal quite carefully. 



One problem with operating surface vessels and subsurface vessels 

 is that they are quite costly and what I think we all must guard against 

 is that the programs don't become wagged, the tail doesn't start wag- 

 ging the dog and the hardware wagging the operation. 



Mr. Downing. Thank you very much, Dr. Hargis. 



Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. EoGERs. Mr. Mosher. 



Mr. Mosher. Dr. Hargis, this morning you have devoted consider- 

 able favorable attention to the concept of coastal zone authorities and 

 coastal zone laboratories as recommended by the Commission. As you 

 see it, does the Great Lakes area have a useful and proper role in those 

 concepts ? 



Dr. Hargis. Yes, sir. 



As a matter of fact, I should have indicated that at the meeting of 

 the Council of Maritime States, Commonwealths and Territories the 

 Great Lakes States were represented and they are considered to be in 

 this instance maritime States. 



So that I think they do, yes, definitely. 



Mr. Mosher. By definition I think Congressman Ruppe and I feel 

 strongly that they should be considered maritime States. 



Dr. Hargis. Yes, sir. 



Mr. Mosher. Are the States of Ohio and Michigan represented in 

 this Council ? 



