461 



Dr. Hargis. Yes, sir. I could read the list. 



Mr. MosiiER. You don't need to. 



Dr. Hakois. There were several of the Great Lakes States repre- 

 sented by gubernatorial representatives. 



Mr. MosiiER. You have only made very fleeting reference to the sort 

 of the heart of the Commission-s proposal, the j^roposed creation of 

 ISTOAA, the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Agency ? 



Dr. Hargis. Yes, sir. 



Mr. MosHER. I am interested in your paragraph on page 5 which be- 

 gins with "Every effort should be made * * * to keep waste and un- 

 jiecessary duplication" and you end that paragraph by saying, "How- 

 ever, we must avoid the easy option of unnecessary or unjustified 

 re]:)lication or of reorganization and renamings which accomplish 

 little." 



Is there any implication in that sentence that you think that NOAA 

 would be an unnecessary and really meaningless reorganization ? 



Dr. Hargis. No, sir. I think that I should clarify this by saying that 

 what I wanted to stress is that the establishment of a new agency with- 

 out the necessary operating instructions, without the necessary orga- 

 nizational arrangements and without the necessary long-term commit- 

 ment in terms of finances will not accomplish what I believe the ob- 

 jectives of Congress would be and, therefore, these things must come 

 along with any reorganization that is brought •about. 



Mr. MosHER. I certainly hope that all of us would agree with that 

 and I certainly believe that that was the Commission's intent. A mere 

 reshuffling of the agency boxes into a new organizational structure or 

 chart and then just allowing them to continue to do what they are now 

 doing would accomplish little, to use your phrase, and would be 

 unfortunate. 



But I am assuming that the Commission itself intended and I would 

 assume that any action on our part or in the Administration's part 

 which would reorganize would be with the idea that the very essence 

 of the new organization would be a much broader reorganization and 

 much greater impetus and hopefully with much better financing than 

 would be represented merely by the present agencies that would be 

 brought into it. 



Dr. Hargis. Yes, sir. 



Mr. MosHER. You would agree that this would be important ? 



Dr. Hargis. Yes, sir. 



Mr. MosHER. And you do in general favor the concept of NOAA ? 



Dr. Hargis. Yes, sir. These were my instructions. 



Mr. 'Rogers. Mr. Karth? 



Mr. Karth. No questions, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Eogers. Mr. Pelly ? 



Mr. Pelly. I would like to commend you, Dr. Hargis, for a very 

 fine contribution. 



Dr. Hargis. Thank you. 



]SIr. Pelly. I also want to commend you for your answer to the ques- 

 tion of my colleague, Mr. Downing, with regard to the possible use 

 of a nuclear submarine. I can't imagine anything that would be more 

 expensive to operate or probably more difficult to transfer to some 

 scientific purpose. Surplus equipment can be very helpful and at the 

 University of Washington in my district we lease for possibly a dollar 



