407 



(in 



4 



lo the extent of their full cateli, nnil tliciefoie gave liiin an undcr-cstimate of the quantity. 

 W'Ikii ho oxphiincd to them that iti point of luct he was only Fishery Warden, they 

 said tliey knew lie was sonietliinj; else, and tiiat he was a County Councillor, and they 

 were .ill id he woiil'l earry the inCorinalion he olitainrd as Fishery Warden to the County 

 f 'oiineil. Mr. .Mrl,nn,L'lilin .-ays tliat tlic (iu;nrcs are entered under the mark. He then 

 .savK tliat tile eateh of the Island of ('ani|tol)ello and Deer i.sjand is as large as the catch of 

 (Jrand Manan. He ^ays, in riLranl to tiiose tiiree island.i of (Irand Manan, Campobello, 

 and l)((r Island, and the adjacent islands, that the Anieriean catch round those islands is 

 aH sjieat, or greater, than the Mritish catch, that is to s:iy, there are 2,000,000 dollars' 

 worth taken round those islands. Upon the main shore, he sa_\ ., from all he can learn 

 — and he has talked with different men en','a'j;ed in the hnsiness on the main shore, from 

 I.epreau to Lctite — liicic is as ^reat a catch as tiiat which is taken round the islands. 

 That statement of Mr. .McLuigidin, which was a matter of opinion, is corroborated 

 as a matter of tiict hy .Mr. .lames Lord and Mr. .James 1!. McLean, who were not only 

 practical tishermen, hut were ))er>()n;.lly i'm;ai;ed in the trade, anci own fishing vessels, 

 Mr. Foster says: " If yim admit the statement to he true, look what follows. A larger 

 quantity of herring is taken round (irand Mananthan the whole foreign importation of the 

 United States." We have nothing to do with that. The American Counsel have under- 

 taken to .show that away out in the Hay ol' J'undy, on some ledges tar beyond the three- 

 mile line, at what they call the " Ki|)s," they catch a qrreat many herring, as also at 

 different places ahmg the coast; hut it docs not appear hyttic returns. The United States 

 do not import a great many herring. There is no pretence for saying that we make use of 

 the United States' market l()r our herring. A number of witnesses have proved (I have 

 not time to read their testimony, hut I state it as the fact) that the large market for salt 

 herrings is to be found in this Oominion, in the ditl'erent cities and towns from St. John to 

 Toronto, and one witness stated that he had at Toronto met American salt herrings 

 coming over the border, and coni|)eting with him in the market. And our herrings are 

 also shipped to Sweden and elsewhere. Therefore the remark of Mr. Foster, though true 

 in fact, really has no bearing on the case. 



How was tins evidence sought to be met? It was sought to be met by Eliphalct 

 French, who is u merchant living at I'.astport, a man who, if I recollect aright, had never 

 been on the Island of (irand Manan. He said he had knowledge of the fishery there, and 

 he ]int his Rceond-hand information against the personal knowledge of McLaughlin, Lord, 

 and McLean, becausi-, said he, the whole trade comes through Eastport. There happens to 

 be a division in tiie American camp on t iiat point, for Pettes, who was another witness brought 

 to contrailict the statements made hy British witnesses regarding Grand Manan, swears that 

 very few herring go to F'.astport, Whether he told the truth or not I do not know and 

 do not care. They are not our witnesses, and it is not my business to reconcile their 

 statements. It is curious that when those peo|)le were brought to contradict our evidence 

 they could not aL'ree. 'I'hey not only tindertook to contradict the British witnesses, but 

 they contradict each other. Then we had Wilford J. Fisher, who formerly lived at Grand 

 Manan, but afterwards became a natm-dized citizen of the United States, and now resides 

 at Lastpiivt. For chven years hack — for a number of years, at all events — his foot had 

 nevei' been placed on (irand Manan ; he had no personal knowledge as to what the 

 fisheries were for the la.st eleven or twelve years. Another witness was ^ jttes, who, after 

 having stated that he was iarwly engaged in the fishing business, it turned out, caught 

 about "JOO dollars' worth of herring in a year, was a boarding-house keeper in winter, and 

 at other times ran a packet to St. Andrew's. This is the man who contradicted French as 

 to the herring trade with Eastport. and said none went there. And these arc the men 

 bronnht up to contradict McLaughlin ! A>ked if McLaughlin was an honest and respectable 

 man, they acknowledged that he was ; hut Pettes, having no personal knowledge, undertook 

 to say that his judgment in rcLiard to the catch off the nrainland and the islands was just 

 as good as the juiigments of those thn.'o men whose particular business it was to make 

 themselves actpiainted with it in every particular. 



I never liiavd more recidess swearing — with great deference to the other side 

 — in my life, except, indeed, the extraordinary affidavits may perhaps have out-Heroded 

 it. For living witnesses I nc-ver heard nmch more reckless swearing than was done by 

 those gentlemen to cuntiadict those whom they were obliged to admit were honest men, 

 and whom they ontiht to have admitted possessed better means of knowledge. This is all 

 I have to say on this point, except this: one of the witnesses, I believe I'ettes, absolutely 

 said he li.id never heard of the American fleet coming down there for herring. 



Mr. Foslfr. — I think not. 



Mr. 'riiomsttn. — 1 hen it was one of the others. 



Mr. Foster. — I think not. 



[280J 3 H 2 



