11 



in tliat section for years. You tal^e 

 tliese two districts from Rondeau, west- 

 ward, tliey comprise by far, the most 

 important tisheries on the lake. And yet, 

 for many years, a state of lawlessness and 

 disorganization existed, which was simply 

 a disgrace to the Fisher>' Department, and 

 to the Government of Canada. The hon. 

 gentleman may think that he can escape 

 on the ground that he did not know that 

 these things existed. It seems a queer idea 

 of ministerial responsibility to think that 

 the hon. Minister can escape in that way. 

 Why, Sir, although I have shown that the 

 fisheries are practically in the hands of 

 Americans from over-fishing on their side 

 of the lal^es, yet, on our own side of the 

 lalvc, comprising half of Dake Erie, the 

 l)etter half of it as regards the ex- 

 tent of the catch, the fishing was prac- 

 tically in the hands of one American firm. 

 Post & Co., of Sandusky, and our fisher- 

 men were for years mere serfs of these 

 men, they dare not sell their fish except to 

 Post & Co., a license could not be given 

 except with the permission of Post & Co., 

 of Sandusky. Though our fishermen were 

 acting under the most rigid rules and re- 

 gulations, a state of disorganization exist- 

 ed, which the Minister of Marine is, to a 

 very great extent responsible. T will just 

 read part of the report of the special offic- 

 er sent to investigate the state of affairs 

 in this district. Mr. Kerr says : 



I experienced a great many difficulties in fa- 

 thomiiig the above irregularities. 



That is people fishing without a license, 

 licenses being given to dead men, that kind 

 of irregularities. 



— All sorts of obstacles were thrown in my way, 

 especially from such of the fishermen as were un- 

 der Post & Co.'s control. This made it sometimes 

 utterly impossible for me to get accurate, or even 

 reliable, information in a great many cases, and I 

 must come, therefore, to the conclusion, that 

 either Post & Co. own and control the whole fish- 

 ery from Rondeau westward, or else that over- 

 seers McMichael and Prosser are in their favour, 

 doing their bidding in every respect, instead of 

 taking the interests of the department, whose 

 paid servants they are. In addition to a most 

 berious charge of mismanagement in recommend- 

 ing for licenses parties who do not exist, thereby 

 helping to place the pound-net fisheries of Lake 

 Erie in the hands of Yankee firms, I am also 

 credibly informed that Mr. Prosser has been in 

 the habit of granting permits for extra nets dur- 

 ing the fall of the year, especially to such of the 

 fishermen who dispose of their fish to Post & Co. 



And again : 



I also found many fishermen afraid to give lue 

 the necessary information that I was seeking, on 

 accounts of threats, &c., made by Prosser and 

 Post of taking away their licenses, &c. One old 

 gentleman remarked, after I had taken his sworn 

 statement, that, if Prosser knew it, it would 

 settle his license for this year. There is no doubt 

 this lawless sort of work has been carried on for 

 years. If a fisherman makes a kick as to the 

 price of his fish, &e., the next year his outside 

 pound is taken away from him. This particu- 



larly has caused much trouble, you can readily 

 perceive — some enjoying the privilege of fishing 

 double-headers, while other's applications are not 

 > entertained at all by oversoer Prosser, who con- 

 tended lo some that the thing was not allowed. 



Now, Sir, the hon. gentleman wanted to 

 know why I brought up these papers whicb 

 relate to 1891. These papers were only 

 brought down to the House in 1893. And 

 the hon. gentleman was not present during 

 ! that session, and I did not have the oppor- 

 ' tunity therefore of bringing tlie matter to 

 his attention. I brought the subject up at 

 the earliest possible moment, and I say it as 

 a most singular thing that the Minister of 

 ', the Crown can escape all responsibility for 

 the disorder that existed for years in re- 

 lation to one of our most important lake 

 fisheries. What sort of system can obtain 

 ; in a Department of Marine and Fisheries, 

 i I should like to know, that it is possible 

 I for one American firm to control the fish- 

 ; eries of half Lake Erie for many years, as 

 I shown by the report of the hon. gentleman's 

 ' own special officer. Prosser has been dis- 

 j missed, the hon. gentleman says ; and he 

 j thinks that that relieves him of responsibil- 

 I ity. Why, Sir. here is a scandal whicli, 

 I while, of course, not in the line of the Cur- 

 : ran bridge, yet involves a loss to this coua- 

 i try quite as great as that involved in the 

 I Curran bridge— our fisheries practically 

 i handed over to one American firm for years; 

 j our fishermen not allowed to sell their fish 

 i to any one but Post & Co., except in the case 

 ; of one or two who positively refused. It 

 j shows that the Department of Marine and 

 I Fisheries under the hon. gentleman was not 

 j the model department tliat he woidd have 

 j the people of this country believe. It seems 

 I almost impossible that, imder a well-re- 

 I gulated department such a state of affairs 

 ; could exist, and be continued year after 

 ; year. 



i We had hoped, Mr. Speaker, that some 

 i chinga foL' the better would take place 

 in reference to the fisheries of the county 

 of Essex. It was heralded by the local 

 press, particularly by the Conservative 

 press, of that county that there was to be 

 an important change of policy, that oiu 

 ! people were no longer to be deprive<l of the 

 i right to fish in the Detroit River, and these 

 other narrow waters, they were not to be 

 compelled to remain idle, while their Am- 

 erican neighbours were gathering the fish, 

 but that the same freedom in fishing would 

 be allowed on our side as w^as allowed on 

 the American side. Well, Sir, what change 

 has taken place ? In these narrow waters, 

 the Detroit River and Lake St. Clair, Cana- 

 dians are allowed to fish on paj'ing $.W 

 license fee— on the other side it is, entirely 

 free— and, in November, the only month 

 w-hen it is possible to catch whiteSsh, they 

 are prevented from fishing, while within 

 a stone's throw, the Americans are gather- 

 ing in the fish. I was In hopes that there 

 would be a change In the policy of the de- 

 partment, but the hon. gentleman seems to 



