is no control over this one variable, the absolute certainty with which 

 the population is going to keep on concentrating and compressing and 

 condensing in these areas ? 



Secretary Hickel. Congressman, I well agree with what you say and 

 I raised the same question the last several weeks; Can we be strong 

 enough ? But I think we have to start, and I think we have to tell the 

 States to act. TVe are asking the States to come up with their plans and 

 we are asking them to present their plans to us so that we can have a 

 national policy with some sort of continuity. We think this is the way 

 we start. 



I think we need a national land-use policy and I so stated in my 

 testimony. I don't know whether this is salable. I don't know whether 

 that is attainable at this time. But I do think this bill will start, start 

 a program where we will have a national policy, because we are asking 

 the States to come in with their programs and we will sort of oversee 

 to see if those programs fit some sort of a national policy. 



We are really trying to say : "Let us see if we can't have some general 

 bounds on the use of these coastal areas in conformity of all other 

 areas." 



Mr. Blatnik. I agree with you completely, but how will that b& 

 done ? How will that be acliieved ? 



Secretary Hickel. The only lever we will have will be that the 

 grants won't be available to those States that don't want to submit 

 their programs to us. And beyond that it would take much stronger 

 legislation, which might have to happen. I say that very candidly, 

 but I think we have to start ; and I think that we have to sell the idea 

 that there has to be some sort of a national land-use policy. I am not 

 just using words ; I am trying to implement a program. And I think 

 that the States, which don't have those terrific pressures on the local 

 level, can come up with their programs and present them to us and we 

 can see how they balance out with the contiguous States. Then we can 

 approve their plan, and will be on the right track. It may not be fast 

 enough, but that is the direction we are trying to go. 



We don't have any other lever except to grant some money. Isn't 

 that right ? 



Mr. Blatnik. That is true. But on page 7 you say in your state- 

 ment that what is really needed is a national land-use policy. We must 

 establish procedures and mechanisms to assure that our lands and 

 waters are devoted to their best use in the interests of society as a 

 whole. 



Secretary Hickel. That is correct. 



Mr. Blatnik. Again, we have to take a look. What would be Our 

 population distribution in, say, 30 years or 50 years from now ? And 

 we pretty well see it; it is projected on a chart on a screen ahead of 

 you, much more clearly than we were able to project the mobility of 

 our population when we were considering the highway program in 

 1955 in this committee. I just don't see how you are going to control 

 our population distribution. 



Secretary Hickel. Let's go on further. 



Mr. Blatnik. For example, right back, obviously, these large met- 

 ropolitan centers demand and attract a vast array of industrial and 

 service activities ; that is goiii^- to continue ; that is on page 2. 



Secretary Hickel. That is right. 



