u 



Mr. Howard. Thank you. 



]Mr. McEwEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Train, on page 2 of the bill, beginning on line 21, the coastal 

 zone is defined. Part 3 states, "including the Great Lakes." 



My question is this: Will the term "Great Lakes"' include the St, 

 Lawrence River? 



Mr. DeCamp. I would say it would not include the St. Lawrence 

 River. 



Mr. Traix. That is ]Mr. Louis DeCamp of the Federal Water Pol- 

 lution Control Administration. 



Mr. McEwEN. The reason I raised the question, if I may be pa- 

 rochial, is that the Avestern and northern boundaries of my congres- 

 sional district lie on the eastern end of Lake Ontario for possibly some- 

 thing approaching 100 miles, and then approximately 100 miles con- 

 tains all of the New York-American shore of St. Lawrence River, and 

 I wondered if there would be a line of demarcation where this would 

 leave off on Lake Ontario and exempt the St. Lawrence River, or 

 whether it Avould include all of that waterway ? 



Mr. Train. I would prefer to answer your question by going back 

 to what I said earlier, and that is that the definition of the coastal 

 zone in tlie first instance lies with the State. And I would say thisr 

 That if the State of New York felt that the shoreline of the St. Law- 

 rence River, within the State, was fairly what it wanted to treat as 

 the coastal zone for purposes of its comprehensive management plan, 

 that the Department of Interior would take a very good look at that 

 determination, and I would say would not hastily override that, be- 

 cause the purpose of the legislation is to give the States, as I have said, 

 a very free hand, both in the definition of coastal zone and in the? 

 development of the plan itself. 



Mr. McEwEN. Ajid the second question I would like to ask Mr. 

 Train is this: When we talk of the coastal zone along our seas, we 

 don't have any problem of a contiguous biwater foreign territory in 

 all of the Great Lakes and the St. Lawrence. We border in varying 

 degrees of closeness and proximity with Canada. Maybe Lake Ontario 

 and Lake Erie, a distance of over 100 miles. 



In other areas, such as the Detroit River and the St. Lawrence^ 

 maybe a mile or less. And I just wondered how this would affect our 

 plan of land use under the American side of these waters, if we had no 

 comparable plans on the Canadian side ; whether there would be some 

 working together of the two countries of the Federal Govermnents or 

 Federal Government with their States and Provinces? 



Has that been given any consideration ? 



Mr. Train. This, of course, has come to mind. The bill does not deal 

 with the problem. I believe that the boundary on the Great Lakes is 

 equidistant between the two shores. I may be incorrect on that. 



Mr. McEwEN. I think, approximately, in many areas and then well 

 in the St. Lawrence River sometimes affected by the location of islands 

 where the international line, because of a ship channel there, usually 

 follows approximately the ship channel and may move toward the 

 American shore and toward the Canadian shore. 



Mr. Train. Well, the effectiveness of any coastal zone plan adopted 

 by a State with respect to a shoreline and waters, that would have an 

 international boundary or another country contiguous to it, which had 



