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of public education is needed on this whole matter of land use, and I 

 believe — I am confident — that this committee can play a very impor- 

 tant role in that public educational process in identifying the prob- 

 lems and in encouraging informed public discussion. And I think that 

 there is really a prerequisite to very much forward motion in this 

 whole area. 



Mr. McEwEx. Well, I couldn't agree with you more on that, Mr. 

 Train, and I certainly want to make it clear that my questions and 

 comments here in no way disagree with you ; and I completely agree 

 this is an important and a meaningful first step. 



I do see some real problems in how to carry this out, and I think 

 that you are quite right that we have got to develop a greater public 

 awareness. 



For instance, in the field of the abatement of water pollution, we 

 were a little while in coming to an aroused public concern in this area. 

 Pollution usually went downstream to somebody else and if the fac- 

 tory or mill provided jobs, that was the immediate plus that was seen 

 and there was little concern for decades given to what we were doing 

 to our water quantity. 



But now there is a concern. And the legislative bodies from the 

 Congress to local governing bodies are responding or endeavoring 

 to respond to meet this need, and I think there is going to have to be 

 the same public awareness here. 



While I was in the New York Legislature we dealt to a limited ex- 

 tent with the question of the wetlands and we found the prevalent 

 attitude was on wetlands, any marshy, swampy area where there was 

 an estuary of a tidal water, or whether it was an inland swamp, man 

 looked upon this as sort of a waste ; it was something that he thought 

 did nothing but breed mosquitoes ; it wasn't pretty, esthetically attrac- 

 tive ; it invited him to fill in, to improve it. develop it, until we started 

 to learn a little bit about the word "ecology," and found that these 

 areas, of course, contributed greatly to the balance of marine life. 

 It is where many of the species spawned and their smaller forms of 

 marine life were produced that feed others, and it took some public 

 •education to develop an understanding of why this was needed. 



I think this is going to be a real area here, too, as we approach this 

 nationally, that people understand what the problem is and why we 

 need to consider these areas. 



Mr. Trahst. I think you also put your finger on an aspect of the 

 problem and the program which would give rise to problems in the 

 future, and that is with the lack of uniformity between the States 

 there could arise a competitive problem, primarily insofar as indus- 

 tiial locations are concerned. It may well be that as we gain experience 

 aiid as the States gain experience with the program, and this sort of 

 problem arises, and the public begins to understand it, that this will 

 give rise to stronger guidelines and a move toward greater uniformity, 

 T would suspect that would happen. 



But, personally, I think that this is something that we should evolve 

 toward, rather than trying to leap to at once. 



Now, this is a little bit off the subject of this legislation, but it may 

 well be that aside from State plans, we may need some clearer Federal 

 or national guidelines in some specific areas of major impact, and you 

 ihave mentioned nuclear powerplants. Commercial jets are another one 



