58 



impossible to base and train a Navy, a Marine Force, or an amphibious 

 force. 



I agree that that is an extreme case, that there could be simpler cases 

 where particular pieces of property or air space were essential to 

 training or development and impossible to locate elsewhere. 



It seems to us that if that leads to a conflict between that use and 

 one other use, that it needs to be mediated and dealt with as a matter 

 of overall national priorities, and not just within the context of par- 

 ticular coastal zone uses. 



This may go beyond the use of the water and the land in the coastal 

 zone region. It might, for example, include the use of air space for test 

 ranges which would be beyond just the context of individual coastal 

 zone uses. 



Senator Inoute. I presume from what you have just said that it 

 could involve areas for target practice ? 



Dr. Frosoh. It might involve such areas, yes. 



Senator Inoute. With live armnunition ? 



Dr. Frosch. Possibly. Many of our ranges do not use live ammuni- 

 tion, but they are coastal zone ranges because it is safer, both from 

 control of the range and for the safety of people who might be near the 

 range, to fire over the ocean rather than over the land. 



Senator Inouye. I bring this up, because we have just missed sev- 

 eral disasters by bombs falling into places that are inhabited by peo- 

 ple, where our pilots have missed a target by several miles. Our targets 

 are islands, as you know, in the Pacific. 



This national security also involves excess soil dug up by the Corps 

 of Engineers ? 



General Koisch. I think you could make a case that that would be 

 on. There would be the necessary navigation or carrying on of com- 

 merce within the countrj' either in preparation for conflict or other- 

 wise, in which channels might have to be dug to certain depths to 

 accommodate the shipping and they might not be compatible with the 

 plans that some States had, and I think we would have to have the 

 overriding Federal interest there. 



Senator Inouye. I may not be up to date, but I recall several years 

 ago receiving testimony in the Committee on Public Works which in- 

 dicated that the Corps of Engineers was dumping soil and other debris 

 in the Great Lakes. Is this practice still continued ? 



General Koisch. Yes, sir; it is continuing, but there was a Presiden- 

 tial press announcement just last week in which the President pro- 

 posed a plan to the Congress with legislation to take care of the Great 

 Lakes dredging problem in the time frame of the next 10 years in 

 conjunction with other pollution control measures. 



Senator Inouye. In other words, for the next 10 years, it would be 

 a matter of national security to dump dredge spoil into coastal zones ? 



General Koisch. I do not think we could put a time frame on that, 

 sir. Like all of the other problems in the coastal zones or in the rivers, 

 I think this would have to be approached in the frame that is laid out 

 in the bills before us, and what we are really doing is trying to find 

 sufficient information on which to make wise decisions. 



Dr. Frosch. Mr. Chairman, it seems to me that the point that I have 

 been making is not that any requirement stated by the Department of 

 Defense is automatically an overriding national security requirement 



