1 DR. RAY: I think it's crucial. It's a hard thing to accomplish 



2 other activities like that back when Georges Bank was getting really 



3 cranked up. 



4 The industry, I think, is learning a lesson and taking their 



5 lumps. They have been now trying to work cooperative programs in Alaska 



6 with the fishing industry. An interesting example is California. 



7 By comparison to the Georges Bank area and to Alaska and to the 



8 gulf, California is a rather small fishery, but politically you would 



9 think they were the biggest fishery in the world. 



10 I mean to tell you--talk about combat warfare--they've had a 



11 committee between the industry and the fishing industry out there for 



12 about 3 years, and it's been a learning process for both sides. It's 



13 making progress and it's accomplishing some of the things that have to 



14 be done if the industries are going to co-exist and tolerate each other. 



15 It's the space conflict, it's the gear damage, it's all of the 



16 above things. The key thing is the communications. I've seen some real 



17 positive signs in California with the arrangements between the industry 



18 and the fishing industry out there. 



19 Once you get the hardliners on both sides out of the way, and get 



20 the more reasonable people talking, you can make progress. Some of the 



21 people are never going to change their mind, on both sides. 



22 I think it's imperative if things ever really crank up back here, 



23 boy if they don't sit down and start communicating, it's not going to 



24 work. 



25 DR. AURAND: In response to your answer, Jim, when asked about why 



26 are the oil companies into it, as you didn't want to speak for your 



27 companies on deferrals, I don't want to speak for the Department of 



28 Interior on whether or not we would have deferrals for canyon heads or 



29 not. 



30 As a matter of fact, that never even came up when we were 



31 proposing this study. This whole effort was generated internal to the 



32 studies program, partly in response to the agency's efforts at outreach, 



33 but also partly in response to our internal frustration with being able 



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