1 long-term energy policy and it includes a lot of things that are beyond 



2 our discussion, energy-efficient cars, et cetera. 



3 All these things are tied together and we're trying to separate 



4 them all to go back to separating them for this discussion. I think the 



5 reason that States like Massachusetts say the things that they say is 



6 because we accept some of what appear to be the present realities. 



7 We see that there are some creative ways to get around some of 



8 them, we don't see that mindset or the willingness to do some of the 



9 creative things that could be done among the people that we deal with 



10 within the federal government, and therefore, we say, "Look, if we're 



11 really going to work hard on wise resource management, just get them the 



12 hell out of those places, and then all those other problems don't 



13 exist." 



14 It sounds simplistic and some parties will take that position, and 



15 just take it and not be responsible about how they came to it, or why 



16 they're recommending that particular position. 



17 I feel that as far as the submarine canyons are concerned, I think 



18 that Dick Cooper's work argues, Barbara Hecker's work argues, lots of 



19 other people here in this room, just the information that's been 



20 presented today says, these are unique areas. 



21 Maybe on just that alone, from a resource management point of 



22 view, that argues to stay out of them. 



23 MR. VILD: I don't really see a proposal like John's working 



24 unless the government was willing to subsidize exploration totally, 100 



25 percent. The carrot of being able to develop something that you find, 



26 just as Pat says, is really the only thing that drives the exploratory 



27 program now. 



28 Right, Jim? 



29 DR. RAY: I'll make a generalized comment. I'll speak in general 



30 terms, obviously I can't speak--especially for my own company, more or 



31 less the industry. 



32 Two comments, one is that a two-phased approval process, which you 



33 partially have now with plans of exploration versus plans of 



34 development, you can maybe have a more formalized way to do it, to make 



153 



