1 them, it's a beneficial impact. Maybe for nobody else, but for them, it 



2 . is. 



3 I think if we are talking about adversity, and I think that's 



4 where we are headed on this, because of--here we go into semantics 



5 again, but because of the way "impact" is normally defined, for better 



6 or for worse, we should have "adverse impact." 



7 DR. TEAL: No, that's the thing that I disagree with. If we say 



8 "adverse" -- 



9 DR. HECKER: "Adverse" is a value judgment. It is a value 



10 judgment. 



11 MR. VILD: Okay. Then, let's talk about everything. Let's talk 



12 about something that may prove to be beneficial as a result of all this. 



13 DR. HECKER: Take, for instance, artificial reefs. You increase 



14 the-- 



15 MR. VILD: That's my point exactly. That is an impact. If we 



16 want to talk about that, fine, but if we want to restrict what we are 



17 talking about now to adversity, to negative impact, we have to have that 



18 qualifier in there. 



19 DR. TEAL: I don't think we do. 



20 DR. HECKER: The question is: What is a negative impact? 



21 DR. BOTHNER: I'd rather see you use the words "biological impact." 



22 DR. HECKER: That is why I am asking this. What do we consider 



23 constitutes an impact? 



24 DR. COOPER: If I can interject here, I can tell you what a recent 



25 study panel considers biological impact as regards sewage sludge dumping 



26 off the Mid-Atlantic, as regards lobsters and red crabs, shell disease, 



27 a significant increase in shell disease caused by two different 



28 causative organisms; a lethargic non-active sort of state of recently 



29 caught lobsters; females carrying a noticeably low load of eggs at a 



30 time of year when they should be much more fully egged out. 



31 DR. AYERS: What we are really doing is describing a measurable 



32 biological impact, a measurable biological change. 



33 DR. COOPER: You are talking about some quasi -measurable, quasi - 



34 quantifiable aspect of this product that you are bringing up out of the 



245 



