1 ocean depths that is going to have a very serious impact on its 



2 salability and human concern for the quality of an edible product. 



3 DR. NEFF: That is where you need chemistry to link the activity 



4 to the impact. We don't have that evidence of the impacts of dumping 



5 that is causing these problems. 



6 DR. COOPER: You haven't seen the reports yet. 



7 DR. NEFF: I've been involved in some of the work that has been 



8 out there. 



9 DR. COOPER: Okay. 



10 DR. KRAEUTER: Given that same scenario, then you could certainly 



11 look for lesions in tile fish. 



12 DR. COOPER: Fin rot, lesions on tile fish, that's right. 



13 DR. KRAEUTER: Yes. 



14 DR. COOPER: We know, even though this has not been quantitatively 



15 assessed up to now, at least, in many of these so-called pristine areas, 



16 it is a rarity to go out there and catch a tile fish that has fin rot or 



17 lesions on it. It is a rarity to find a shell disease or black-gilled 



18 or poorly egged out female lobsters. 



19 When those kinds of things start showing up, it is ^ery evident to 



20 the commercial fishermen. They are the ones that first let out the cry 



21 of concern. It is a fairly easy-to-define impact, in quotes, if you get 



22 out there in time to get out there and measure the chemistry. 



23 DR. VALENTINE: Couldn't we broadly define it as a reduction in 



24 productivity or usefulness of the organism? 



25 DR. COOPER: That, Page, is extremely difficult. There are such 



26 tremendous fluctuations in catch rates from commercial fishermen, that 



27 your impact would have to be extreme and so obvious that a get together 



28 of people like us would all be academic. 



29 DR. VALENTINE: If you say productivity and/or usefulness, I mean, 



30 they consider red crabs with these black lesions not useful; tile fish 



31 with lesions are not useful. They can't sell them. 



32 DR. COOPER: They are not marketable. 



33 DR. VALENTINE: Lobsters with high loads of copper or whatever are 



34 not useful . 



246 



