1 MS. HUGHES: I think one of the difficulties with using what Dick 



2 has described as a measure of impact, if we are proposing it as a 



3 measure of impact, say, in activities around the submarine canyons, I 



4 mean, it is still inexact, but it appears as though things like shell 



5 disease and black gill and all are associated more with a much more long 



6 term and chronic problem--years versus months, or many years versus 



7 months--than what we might be talking about with regard to exploratory 



8 operations and--I don't know, it's possible--with regard to development 



9 and production, if it were to occur. 



10 DR. HECKER: One of the reasons I was asking the question is: How 



11 are we going to define impact? Are we going to not allow any impact? I 



12 mean, is a 1 percent population reduction unacceptable? Is a 10 percent 



13 population reduction? 



14 DR. COOPER: You can't even measure that. 



15 DR. HECKER: Yes. 



16 DR. AYERS: You can't even measure chemical changes, let alone 



17 biological changes. 



18 DR. COOPER: I disagree with Pat here. I don't think this is this 



19 long term--fin rot, lesions, shell disease, black gill conditions are 



20 things that can easily set in in a matter of a number of months, up to a 



21 year, maybe a year and a half. 



22 I don't think we are talking about long-term chronic build-ups 



23 that require a number of years to manifest themselves. 



24 DR. NEFF: I don't think there is any rational, though, for 



25 assuming that these are the types of things you might see from a long- 



26 term development of drilling. I mean, it's a very different scenario. 



27 Using it is a good example, but let's not mislead people to think, 



28 "Well, gee, that may be happening in the canyons if they drill out 



29 there." 



30 DR. COOPER: I have no idea whether those would be the effects 



31 from something like this. 



32 DR. NEFF: It is common where you dump a lot of sewage sludge and 



33 that is the major linkage right now. 



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