10 



be or should not be located during this particular time during this 

 energy crisis? 



It seems like we could be furnishing that. We have agencies, yours 

 and the CEQ, EPA, and others, and how should we treat the alarm ? 

 You can find out all the damage to the ecosystems and the fisheries, 

 and how the Torrey Canyon might ruin the beach, and I know all that. 

 Are you telling me from an environmental standpoint that you can't 

 get there from here, that you can't build a refinery ? 



Dr. White. No, I don't want to leave that impression at all. 



Senator Hollings. Then where can you build one with the least 

 amount of damage ? Don't you think the NO A A could at least establish 

 that? 



Dr. White. I think we could have a great input into that. We do 

 have the National Environmental Policy Act which provides for mak- 

 ing sure we know to the best extent of our knowledge what the environ- 

 mental impact would be of any significant Federal actions. This is a 

 very significant way in which decisions are made as to what will hap- 

 pen to the environment, and whether a deterioration of the environ- 

 ment is to be accepted in return for the bulding of a refinery or an 

 industry. 



Senator Hollings. But your agency is the only one with objective 

 research conducted along this line. If I were on the city council in the 

 town of Beaufort, S.C., where would I go? We have the oil people 

 saying it is a lovely thing, and you have the environmentalists saying 

 the world is going to come to an end. Where do I go to find out whether 

 I want an oil refijiery or not, other than NOAA? Your agency, right ? 



Dr. White. We have programs that are designed to specifically as- 

 sist the States in problems like this. Our sea grant program is in great 

 part directed to the problems of the coastal zone, and has provided 

 great assistance to the State governments and municipalities in ques- 

 tions of the kind that you have been raising. 



Our Fisheries Service has prepared and has rendered advice and 

 assistance to States and communities concerned with the impact of 

 anything you might want to do which might affect spawning and 

 nursery gromids of fish or have an adverse effect on fisheries. 



So we do have a rather extensive capability, and we do apply our- 

 selves to problems such as this. It doesn't say we are the only one. 



Senator Hollings. You have the grants, you have the fisheries, and 

 you have the coastal zone. You are backed almost entirely with — I 

 think you said $255,000. That is a covered dish meeting you are going 

 to have in Annapolis. You won't have enough to feed the troops. "\^> 

 will get some money. 



You have coastal zones and sea grants, and fisheries, and you have 

 ocean pollution. Is there within your agency a coordinated report with 

 respect to the impact, so I won't have to be almost a research scientist 

 in governmental procedures to find the answer? I am a simple city 

 councilman. The oil companies have come and told me all the visions 

 of sugar plums. The environmentalists say it is going to ruin us for- 

 ever. I can't be chasing around to Sea Grant, now, about it, and I know 

 about it but how do you get an appointment with Dr. Abel and find 

 out which one is making that study and how do you get to see him ? 

 It would take me 2 or 3 years to run through your department and 

 coordinate the answer. Can't you coordinate it first? 



