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management of the resource. INIanagement agencies and decisionmak- 

 ers are myriad. They range from a Federal i-egulatory agency deciding 

 wliere to permit the dumping of wastes, to a county planning com- 

 mission zoning coastal lands, to a citizens group deciding how to take 

 a stand on an important public issue. 



We intend to determine as best we can the decisions and issues that 

 will be confronting managers and the pul)lic, and the marine environ- 

 mental information needed to guide those decisions. In this way, we 

 hope that the MESA project will not only provide some more basic 

 understandings about man's impact on the marine environment, but 

 will also serve as an important tool in coastal zone management. 



That concludes my statement. 



Senator Stevexs. Thank you very much, Doctor. T am told by the 

 staff that the President's Advisory Council on Water Quality held a 

 3-day session in New York last fall and that a scientist from NOAA's 

 Sandy Point Lab said that the New Jersey recreational beach waters 

 were increasingly polluted because of the dumping by the city of 

 New York. In view of this, could you tell us why these permits are 

 still being issued to dump in that area ? 



Dr. HiRSCH. Well, I will attempt to answer that in two ways. Sena- 

 tor. I believe that there are a variety of sources of col i form organisms 

 impacting the beaches in the New York area, not only ocean dump- 

 ing, but the effluent discharges and storm water overflows that occur 

 on the shoreline and from the Hudson River itself. 



So I think the exact source of the contamination is still subject to 

 some question, and that is one of the things we have to examine in 

 greater detail with this project. 



Second, the question that really faces the regulatory agency in mak- 

 ing a decision is whether or not to continue to dump for some interim 

 period in an area which is already impacted, or whether to go out and 

 dump for that period in an area which is presently unimpacted, for 

 example, the edge of the Outer Continental Shelf. 



We are right now working with EPA in trying to take a look at the 

 area at the edge of the Outer Continental Shelf to at least esablish some 

 sort of basic understanding of the environment out there in the event 

 that they decide to move those wastes to that point. 



The basic decision is EPA's and not ours, but our role is to help 

 provide the scientific basis for understanding the effect of that deci- 

 sion. 



Going back to the initial thrust of your question. Senator, I think it 

 is not entirely clear as to the source of all the coliform organisms. It 

 is clear they are increased by ocean dumping, but whether the con- 

 tamination on the beaches is the result of ocean dumping or substan- 

 tially the result of other sources of contamination is one of the things 

 we have to be more firm on before some of these long reaching man- 

 agement decisions are made, and that is why we are engaged in the 

 study. 



Senator Stt.vexs. T remember one hearing where I was giving some 

 statistics about the amount of oil wastes that come off the streets of 

 New York just in washing the streets, and in washing down gas sta- 

 tions and things like that. Have you done any research to determine 

 how that is disposed of ? 



