88 



it is time that we started talking a little bit about this, the problem of 

 refined products. Have you got any studies that are printed on this that 

 car-ry tlie conclusions that you have outlined here ^ 



i)r. lioYCE. We have stutlies underway, and, yes, I think we do. 



Senator Stevens. Are there studies available to us? We are trying 

 like mad to bring some of these refineries back onshore. We liaxe to 

 double interest here as a practical matter. The cost of the refined prod- 

 ucts is more if they are shipped than if they are refined here, too. 



I would be very interested in seeing some of these studies if any of 

 them have been either finally prepared or printed for distribution, be- 

 cause 1 think you may make a significant contribution in an area that 

 you don't intend to make, and that is to stop some of these refineries 

 from going offshore. 



Dr. EoYCE. Let me look into the literature and supply the committee 

 with a list of copies and references. 



Senator Stevens. I asked your colleagues about the state-of-the-art 

 as far as removing petroleum from any kind of waste water, whether 

 it is ballast, or storm-drain water, or vrhatever system we are using. 



Am I correct that the state-of-the-art is that the level of control is 

 somewhere between 2 and 10 parts per million ? In the plants we have 

 for purification ? 



Dr. EoTCE. I am just not an expert on that field. Senator. I don't 

 laiow. 



Senator Stevens. Who would we go to for that information ? 



Dr. HiRSH. Well, I believe you can go to people in the EPA. I do 

 know you have Professor Pearson on your list of witnesses this morn- 

 ing, aiid I don't want to be placing the onus on him, but he may be more 

 expert in this area. 



Senator Ste\tlns. We are belaboring it, perhaps, but I think perhaps 

 Senator Hollings and I both have great interest in the fishery re- 

 sources, and we want to pursue this to the greatest extent joossible. 



I am obviously concerned about the future of our fisheries resources 

 in Alaska in terms of the operation of the transportation system that 

 we will have to move the oil up there. I can assure you — and I am sure 

 you have seen them, Dr. Royce — that there are natural oil seeps in the 

 area where the fish runs come through, and they have come through 

 from time immemorial, I take it, through the same natural oil seeps 

 and there don't seem to be any ill effects as far as tliat is concerned. 



Have you made any studies of that, such as around the Yakutat area, 

 where we have the natural oil seep there? 



Dr. RoYCE. I am not aware of any special study of these areas. 



Senator Ste\'ens. Has there been any study of a marine system where 

 there has been a natural oil seep and what effect it has on the system ? 



Dr. Royce. lAvas going to report one interesting observation made 

 by one of our ships in the Caribbean which was that it made rather 

 large catches of shrimp along with a substantial amount of debris from 

 oil seeps, and this was in very deep water. 



This was not a coastal source of oil. We have been trying to follow up 

 on that with further observations to determine the kinds of animals 

 that live in the vicinity of these oil seeps in the Caribbean area. 



This is in progress. 



Senator Sti^vens. Did you want to say something. Dr. Gross? 



Dr. Gross. If I might respond to your question about studies on 

 natural oil seeps, I have been informed that the Petroleum Institute has 



