TAKEN IN SAN FRANCISCO. 435 



there examined and interrogated by W. H.Williams, esq., and did de- 

 pose and testify as follows, to wit : 



Charles G. Hagman, having been duly sworn, testified as follows: 

 Mr. Williams: 



Q. What is your name, age, residence, and occupation? — A. My 

 name is Charles G. Hagman ; age, 47 ; residence, San Francisco ; occu- 

 pation, seaman. 



Q. Are you an American citizen'? — A. I am. 



Q, Have you ever been engaged in the business of catching seals in 

 the Pacific or Bering Sea"? — A. Yes, sir. 



Q. For how long a period? — A. About eight years. 



Q. Have you been master of a vessel thus engaged '? — xpenence. 

 A. Yes, sir. 



Q. Have you any experience as to the habits of the fur-seals? — A. 

 ]!^ot any more than they seemed to emigrate in the winter, jind go north 

 in the summer. That is all I know of their habits. I have never seen 

 them out of the water. 



Q. What time of the year do you generally start out sealing in the 

 Pacific, and up to what time do you continue? — A. From the 1st of 

 February, as a general thing, until about June, on the coast. Then we 

 used to go in the Bering Sea. I have not been there for four or five 

 years. 



Q. What time of the year are the se^ds all out of the Pacific, having 

 gone to the Bering Sea? — A. They generally leave in 

 June. You don't'see but very few after June. i^^'^.^il""* "^ ^'''°'^° 



, . , m " uii©. 



Q. According to your experience, what percentage 

 of animals that are shot at are actually taken by the 

 boats?— A. Most all of them; very few escape. Maybe gefure"^ *"" ^^"^ ""* 

 out of the whole year's catch of a couple of thousand 

 a dozen may sink. It is a rare occurrence that they sink. 



Q. Are the seals shot at asleep on the water or awake? — A. Both. 



Q. Do you ever shoot at a seal when awake or breeching? — A. Yes, 

 sir. 



Q. What sex are the seals taken by you or usually killed by hunting 

 vessels in the I^orth Pacific or Bering Sea? — A. Mostly 

 females. The biggest percentage, I think, are females. Jl't^ p""^''"* ^'• 



Q. What percentage of them are cows ? — A. I couldn't 

 tell you. 



Q. Out of a hundred seals that you would catch ordinarily, what 

 part of them would be cows ? — A. I am under oath, and I could not 

 tell you exactly. All I can say is, the greater portion of them. 



Q. What percentage of the cows are taken with pup? — A. All the 

 large ones have — all ithe grown females have. Very seldom you find a 

 barren one. 



Q. In your opinion, are any of the pups born in the water, or any- 

 where outside of the seal islands? — A. It has never come under my 

 observation. I have never seen a seal on shore. I have never seen the 

 seal islands yet ; that is, St. George and St. Paul, I have never seen. 

 I have seen the Copper Islands, on the Russian side. 



Q. Have you noticed any decrease in the quantity of animals in the 

 last few years? — A. As I have not hunted on this coast for several 

 years, I am unable to say. When I was there I saw no difference. 



Q. If you peoi)le are allowed to kill females still, is there anydanger 

 of extermiuating them, do you think, supposing you go on and kill 



