514 TESTIMONY. 



stated to him that they were unable to catch anything but female seals, 

 are the following : 



Captain Cathcart, an American, now about 75 years of age, who com- 

 manded the schooner San .Diego, and who subsequently commanded 

 other vessels; Gapt. Harry Harmson, Capt. George W.Littlejohn,Gapt. 

 A. Garlson, Gustav Sundvall, and others, whose names he does not 

 now remember. 



Fifth. That by reason of his long acquaintance with the business 

 and his conversations with the captains of the vessels, 

 as e o 1 e. called poachcTS, and the hunters employed on those ves- 



sels — thatis, the persons who actually shoot the seals — deponent is satis- 

 fied that a large number of the seals which are shot are not caught, but 

 are lost, and that the number so killed and lost is at least 25 to 30 i)er 

 cent. 



Deponent further says that by reason of his knowledge of the biisi- 

 Decrease. 1^^'"*'^ ^^® kuows that the number of seals has greatly 



Absolute prohibi- diminished within the last live yeais, and is of the 

 tion necessary. opiniou that opcu-sca seal-fishiug should be absolutely 



j)rohibited, and that if the same is not done the seals will within two, 

 or at the utmost three, years be exterminated. This opinion is based 

 upon the assumption that the present restriction imposed by the United 

 States and Eussia on the number, age, and sex of the seals killed upon 

 the islands owned by them respectively are to be maintained. 



Deponent is farther of tlie opinion that it would be necessary, in 

 order to fully protect the herds, to prohibit, at least for a time, the 

 killing of all female seals anywhere. That one reason for deponent's 

 opinion that the total number of seals in the Pacific and Bering Sea 

 has diminished very rapidly is the fact — which deponent knows from 

 the fact that he buys so large a portion of the poachers'' catch — that 

 there are now engaged on wliat is called "i^oachiug" 

 o/p'o'acwng ves'^ei^ about eighty vessels, and that about five years ago 

 and diminisiied catch not morc thau tcu vcsscls wcre engaged in poaching; 

 per vesse . ^^^ ^j^^^ ^^^ total number of skins brought in by the 



whole eighty vessels is now not very much greater than the number 

 brought in five years ago by ten vessels. The poaching vessels a few 

 years ago have been known to get as many as 3,000 or 4,000 skius^ 

 and deponent has bought 4,000 skins from one vessel, whereas no poach- 

 ing vessel now gets more than a few hundred with the same size crew. 

 One vessel last year sailing from Victoria made a catch of 1,900 skins,, 

 but this is now an altogether exceptional catch, and this vessel had a 

 crew twice as large as poaching vessels formerly carried, and was. 

 eqnipped with from twelve to fifteen boats instead of five or six. One; 

 or two other jioaching vessels also made large catches — that is,, 

 over 1,200 skins — bnt the average catch of the poaching vessels, 

 is not more than a few hundred each. This is true,. 

 equ[imient*of^po"c" although the poaching vessels are now eqnipped witli 

 iug vessels. ' much morc experienced shooters, with better rifles, and 

 with better boats than any of the vessels had five 

 years ago. Many of the poaching vessels now have boats pointed at 

 both ends, so that they can go backward or forward with equal ease; 

 and the old poacher only had ordinary ships' boats. Deponent knows 

 this to be true, because he has seen the boats and talked Avith the cap- 

 tains of the schooners about them. 



Herman Liebes. 



Sworn to before me this 4th day of April, 1892. 



[L. s.j Edwin T. Eice, Jr., 



Notary Public, New York County. 



