580 TESTIMONY. 



A year or two thereafter Messrs. Hntcliinson, Kohl, Philippens & Co., 

 of Sau Francisco, which, as deponent is informed, was a firm formed 

 by persons controlling the Alaska Commercial Company, obtained a 

 lease from the Eussian Government giving them the exclusive right to 

 kill seals upon Komandorski and Eobben Islands. 



That in 1890 the Alaska Commercial Company, as deponent was in- 

 formed, did not secure a renewal of the lease which they had thereto- 

 fore enjoyed from the United States, but a similar lease was granted 

 by the United States to the North American Commercial Company, 

 which is a separate corporation and is controlled by different people 

 from the Alaska Commercial Company. 



Fifth. From the year 1870 down to the present time deponent's firm 

 have received and handled from the Alaska Commercial Company and 

 from Messrs. Hutchinson, Kohl, Philippeus & Co., from 

 Skins from isiaods the Nortli American Commercial Company, and the 

 RuSii'"^ ^*''*'' '''"^ Eussian Seal Skin Company, of St. Petersburg, which 

 company have now succeeded to the lease of the Ko- 

 mandorski and Eobben islands formerly enjoyed by Hutchinson, Kohl, 

 Philippeus & Co., all the skins of seals which have been killed upon 

 the Pribilof Islands and upon the Copper Islands. They have also re- 

 ceived at least three-fourths of the skins included in 



Northwest catcb. ^^^^^^ .^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^ Nortliwcst catch uutil the year 1801, 



when the major part of the skins of the catch were consigned to Messrs. 

 Culverwell, Brooks & Co., of London. A large number of the skins of 

 this catch, amounting in one year to 40,000 a year, have been consigned 

 to deponent's firm by the firm Hermann Liebes & Co., of San Francisco. 

 The total number of skins of the Northwest catch received by depo- 

 nent's firm dui"ing the years 1872 and 1892, inclusive, are set forth with 

 accuracy in an afiidavit made by my partner, Alited Fraser, in New 

 York, a copy of which, dated April 1, and acknowledged E. T. Eice, 

 notary ijublic, has been received by me from him and I annex hereto a 

 copy of the lists of Northwest skins attached to Mr. Eraser's affidavit, 

 making the same a part of this deposition, and mark the same Exhibit 

 C. I also append hereto as a part of this deposition copies of the lists 

 attached to the affidavits of Mr. Fraser of Alaska skins sold in London 

 by my firm during the years 1870 to 1892, inclusive, and to the Copper 

 Island skins sold by my firm in London during the years 1872 to 1892, 

 inclusive, and mark the same respectively Exhibits D and E, and I re- 

 fer to the affidavit of Mr. Fraser above mentioned for an explanation 

 of all said lists and adopt the same explanation given by him as my 

 own. I have carefully verified the figures contained in these latter and 

 find them to be as accurate as any such statement can be made. 



Sixth. The skins of the Alaska and Copper catches are readily dis- 

 tinguished from each other and command difierent 

 ^^skins distinguish- ^^.[^^Q^ j^ the market, and I should have no difficulty and 

 would undertake ft'om my knowledge of the various 

 skins to separate Copper skins from Alaska skins should they ever be 

 found mingled together, as, however, they are not. The Alaska and 

 Copper skins are distinguishable fr'om each other partly by means of 

 the difierent color. The Copper Island skins generally have a darker 

 top hair and are more yellow on the cheeks than the Alaska skins. 

 Perhaps a surer means of distinguishing the two is the difierence in 

 shape. The Copper Island skins are much narrower at the head than 

 the Alaska skins, and this difierence is very marked. In our ware- 

 houses we have a difi'erent set of frames for the sizing out of the Copper 

 skins from those we use for the Alaska skins. Another difierence 



