128 DISCUSSION ON TWO PRECEDING PAPERS. 



received from her, and the interval of time noted. Her rate of approach to cause 

 collision is read on the scale arm and transferred to the receiving instrument (Fig. 

 ii). As soon as the submarine wireless letter is heard, the receiver, Fig. ii, is 

 started. Operating the Morse key measures the successive distances. The rate of 

 approach is thus observed and compared with the "collision line." 



Investigation will demonstrate that with an effective radius of 5 miles nearly 

 a quarter of an hour will usually elapse before maneuvering may be necessary, and 

 in the great majority of cases any change of course and speed will not be required. 



DISCUSSION. 



The Chairman : — Both of these papers, the one by Mr. Millet and the other by Com- 

 mander Sawyer, are open for discussion. 



Mr. Harvey D. Goulder, Member of Council: — I just want to say a few words in 

 recognition of the value of these two papers. There is a gentleman here, Mr. Frank Smith, 

 who can tell you about our. experiments with submarine signaling on the Great Lakes, and 

 all of these things tend to a betterment of the service. We have on the Great Lakes what 

 we call the Great Lakes Protective Association, a self-insuring or co-insuring institution. 

 The formation of this association was brought about because of the things referred to in 

 these papers. We have established lanes on Lake Superior and Lake Huron which we have 

 established without any authority of law, but by moral force. We also have lanes in the con- 

 necting rivers, where we are usually very much congested in our trafific. When this associa- 

 tion was formed the insurance rate was 6 per cent — had been 6 per cent, and was to be 7 

 per cent. This year, 1914, we made an initial contribution of 3.5 per cent to the actual cost 

 of the insurance, and it brought down the cost of insurance to about 2 per cent. That has 

 resulted from the introduction of improvements which are touched upon in these papers. We 

 had to take in the human equation. It is hard for us to put off old shoes that are easy ; what 

 I mean is, it is hard for us to discard our ordinary habits of business, and we have found dif- 

 ficulty, much difficulty, with our masters, in getting them to adopt these modern appliances. 

 On Lake Huron we give the shore line, the west line, to the upgoing steamers, because there 

 they get the lights and the fog signals at various places, and the man who is going down 

 says, "I ought to have the same thing." So we have to take that human equation into con- 

 sideration ; it goes back to the proposition of Capt. George Judson, who never had a collision, 

 and who was once much talked about because you never could get him into a collision — he 

 would keep a half-mile away from everything else. That was a criticism. The answer was 

 that George Judson was a successful master and never had a collision. 



Let me say further that we have our duplicate channels ; we have only one bad place on 

 the Lakes that we need to remedy, and that is the Southeast Bend in St. Claire River where, 

 when coming north, the steamers have to steer southeast part of the distance. There is an 

 opportunity to have a channel on the other side. We are getting these different channels and 



