32 FUR-SEAL FISHERIES OF ALASKA. 



never much difference ; sometimes there may have been a skin or so dif- 

 ference. In the final count to the steamer we took them out in bundles. 

 If there were any bundles left they staid in the salt-house until the next 

 year. Our quota at St. George was 20,000 skins, and the quota was 

 80,000 at St. Paul. If their were two or three bundles over, as some- 

 times happened, they went into the salt-house and went on to the next 

 year's quota. 



Q. Then, is there further count elsewhere?— A. The mate of the ves- 

 sel counted them. I counted them out of the salt-house into the lighter, 

 and the natives pulled out to the steamer, which was off-shore about a 

 half or a quarter of a mile, according to the water and wind, and the 

 mate counted them there. The steamer people counted them for their 

 own satisfaction ; the steamer did not count them for anything except 

 for their own satisfaction, as the mate wanted to know what he was 

 getting. Their count never amounted to anything. 



Q. The next count took place where? — A. At San Francisco. The 

 skins are taken out of the steamer right on the wharf by the Govern- 

 ment laborers there and packed in casks. They are shipped in bulk 

 from the island, but in San Francisco they are packed in casks, and as 

 they go out they are tallied again by the Government inspector. The 

 laborers pack them in casks, and they work in open daylight. 



Q. Upon that count the company makes payment to the Govern- 

 ment? — A. That is what I understood, both at the customhouse and at 

 the company's office. 



Q. Had you auy knowledge of any considerable discrepancy between 

 the count at San Francisco and that on the island? — A. No, sir. I have 

 never counted in San Francisco, and I know nothing of it. I heard of 

 the count not having accorded with the London count and the San 

 Francisco count. There are a hundred thousand skins, and it seems 

 almost impossible to get them straight. 



Q. Was there as much difference as to indicate any fraudulent count- 

 ing? — A. No, sir ; it is just a question of one fellow being smarter than 

 another in the counting. 



Q. It's a question exclusively of accuracy ? — A. Yes, sir. 



Q. Andnothingtoindicateany fraud?— A. No,sir. It is just as where 

 the chief and myself counted in 20,000 at the island, and then we would 

 stop, and when we come to count out we might have two or three more. 



Q. In your experience there do you know of any fraud perpetrated 

 upon the Government or any attempts at fraud ? — A. No, sir. 



Q. Were there any considerable inducements for fraud existing 

 there ? — A. They were never proposed to me. I never saw a chance for 

 anybody to swindle either the company or the Government. The com- 

 pany left it for the Treasury agents to see that the count was right. 

 They wanted the agents to make it right. If possible they wanted to 

 have no discrepancy between the island count and the San Francisco 

 count, so it was left entirely to the Government agents and the natives 

 to get the counting straight. The company's people never troubled 

 themselves about it, they expected the chief to do it on our island, and 

 the Treasury agent. In fact it was the Treasury agent's business and 

 the company agent did not trouble himself much about it. 



Q. Did the company, in its administration of affairs there, seem to 

 take great care for the preservation of seal life as well as care over the 

 natives ? — A. Yes, sir. We could not get the natives to try to preserve 

 the seal life. Boys of twelve and fourteen years old would kill the seal 

 pups. They say they are mild sort of people, but they never have a 

 chance to abuse a dumb creature but what they do it. The pnly time J 



