PLATO’S THEORY OF PUBLIC EDUCATION. 265 
a man would find his rank according to his worth and according to 
his abilities. That would be an ideal state ; but it appears to me 
that at present it is impossible for us to realize it. We may aim at 
it, and I think we should aim at it most decidedly. It is far better 
to have high ideals—even though we may fall somewhat short of 
them—than to be otherwise. Then we have had also the idea of the 
Church. Well, it is exceedingly difficult in these times to put into 
universal practice and to adapt universally any man’s ideal of the 
Church or idea of the Church. Probably my idea of the Church 
would be different, indeed, from that of the gentleman who has 
addressed us this afternoon. I do not know. Possibly so. But 
there is where your difficulty comes in. When you are going to 
associate the State with the Church, what are you going to regard 
as the Church teaching which is to be given to these children who 
are to come under the education of the Church ? That is where our 
controversy lies at the present time. I suppose that the great 
majority of sober-minded people would be fairly well satisfied at all 
events with the Bible; but there are some who are not content with 
that, and they would have a catechism of some kind. I should join 
issue with them at once. I desire most decidedly that every child 
in the State should have a religious education, but there comes the 
difficulty to define what religious education is. If youare going to 
associate any particular Creed that has been drawn up for any 
particular section of the Christian Church, that is not broad enough 
for the State to apply, it appears to me. So that you require to 
define your idea of what the Church is. 
Then again, Mr. Chairman, I think it should be remembered, too, 
that the church of the New Testament is no mere external organ- 
ization. (Hear, hear.) There are men who are Christian men, and 
who are members of the redeemed Church of Christ, who do not 
belong to any of our organized Churches. Consequently when you 
are associating the Church with the State, you cannot associate 
merely one particular organization. You want, therefore, a much 
more spiritual conception of the Church. When you take the 
New Testament conception of the Church, it is the redeemed, the 
regenerated, the true followers of the Lord Jesus Christ—no others, 
whatever their profession may be. The virgins in the parable were 
all, to external appearances, virgins, but there were those who had no 
oil in their lamps. 
s 2 
