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SCIENCE. 



[N. S. Vol. XIX. No. 491. 



engineers and others should be educated 

 by research and to research, and there is 

 no reason why they should not receive a de- 

 gree signifying the accomplishment of orig- 

 inal work and the promise of its continu- 

 ation. The doctorate of medicine has 

 in this country lost any meaning be- 

 yond the following of three or four years 

 of routine work. I see no special objec- 

 tion to doctorates of engineering, path- 

 ology, etc., but the doctorate of philos- 

 ophy is quite as suitable. I object to 

 the distinction between liberal and tech- 

 nical studies, as applied to the subject 

 studied, but there is an important differ- 

 ence in the attitude of the student. A 

 student might receive the A.B. or B.S. 

 degree as a sign that he is a well-educated 

 man, and at the same time the professional 

 degree, such as E.E. or C.E., as an indica- 

 tion that he is prepared to practise a cer- 

 tain profession. Then later he could be 

 given the doctorate, if he proved himself 

 competent 'to advance knowledge. 



I am not greatly interested in the ques- 

 tion of honorary degrees. I should sup- 

 pose it might be well to reserve the LL.D. 

 degree for public men, including college 

 presidents and benefactors, and to use the 

 doctorates of science and of letters for the 

 two main lines of productive activity. 

 But, at a matter of practise, the LL.D 

 tends to become a first-class degree and the 

 others second-class degrees. It may seem 

 slightly pedantic for Herbert Spencer to 

 have declined all honorary degrees; but 

 if the members of a society such as this 

 would unite in ignoring them it would be 

 a modest reform. 



President Jordan: 



May I rise for a few words more? I be- 

 lieve that Stanford University is the only 

 one to grant the degree A.B. at the end 

 of a four years' course of which the major 

 subject is engineering. AATiien the iiniver- 



sity was organized I wrote its first consti- 

 tution and put in the degree B.S. for engi- 

 neering courses. "When the faculty met, 

 they decided that the purpose of the engi- 

 neering courses was not essentially different 

 from the others. They led men toward the 

 profession of engineering. Professor Marx, 

 especially, insisted that the engineering 

 proper should be largely graduate work, 

 and that the spirit of the undergraduate 

 work should not be essentially dift'erent 

 from that of other scientific departments. 

 For such reasons the faculty voted to give 

 the degree A.B. for this work. Since then 

 I have not found enough objection to the 

 arrangement to bring the faculty together 

 for a reconsideration. The classical men 

 seem to be satisfied with the thing as it is, 

 and the engineers are looking for the time 

 when engineering shall be a professional 

 subject to be pursued for two years after 

 granting the bachelor's degree. Engineer- 

 ing students are brought more closely to the 

 others by this arrangement, and the more 

 unified the student body is the better. We 

 should have no reason for considering a 

 change unless, as suggested by President 

 Van Hise, all the other institutions should 

 agree to reserve the degree of B.S. for the 

 first four years leading to technical work. 



The Chairman: 



It seems to me, gentlemen, that these re- 

 marks of Dr. Jordan are very suggestive, 

 indeed, as to what is really needed in the 

 entire matter of degrees. The universities 

 of the country which give degrees of course 

 can get together in regard to what they do, 

 and very greatly simplify and very greatly 

 strengthen their attitude in regard to it. 



Dr. Cattell has spoken in a very brief 

 way of honorary degrees, and what he said 

 in regard to honorary degrees reminded me 

 of a little experience of my own this last 

 summer. I was botanizing in Mexico, and 

 I ran across a gentleman— a member of the 



