33 



There presently is a moratorium on commercial whaling. There 

 has been an end to the commercial harvest of harp seals. And, in 

 my view, the incidental take of porpoise in the yellowfin tuna purse 

 seine fishery has reached levels which are biologically insignificant. 

 We have the same issue with respect to that fishery as we are talk- 

 ing about here with other fisheries, in terms of the goal of a zero 

 mortality and serious injury rate. 



So, what we have today, as a result of the moratorium on taking 

 imposed by the Marine Mammal Protection Act, is increases in a 

 number of*^ populations. There also, however, have been decreases. 

 Steller sea lions I think are the best example that I can think of 

 immediately, although also in the central Gulf of Alaska, there 

 have been decreases in harbor seal populations. There had been a 

 decline in the North Pacific fur seal through I think the early 

 1980's. The most recent data, and either Dr. Eagle or Dr. Foster 

 may be able to speak to that, suggest that that decline has at least 

 stopped, and may have reversed. 



So, the big issues in the late sixties and 1970's, largely are under 

 control. Things that we did not recognize, and in some cases have 

 developed since then, large-scale high seas driflnet fisheries, for ex- 

 ample, did not exist in a substantive way in the late sixties and 

 early 1970's. And that, as I think everybody knows and agrees, ap- 

 pears to have been quite a large problem. 



Senator Stevens. Well, I remember seeing a story that indicated 

 that the number of steelhead going up many of the steelhead 

 streams had been reduced to an absolutely low level. And in place 

 of salmon and steelhead runs that were once very robust, we now 

 have very robust populations of sea lions and seals that are lining 

 up along the mouths of the rivers and destroying the fish runs. 



Is that true? 



Dr. HoFMAN. I think in some areas there certainly is a problem. 

 There clearly are some fish stocks that have declined substantially. 

 Certainly, there have been increases in a number of marine mam- 

 mal populations. Do they indicate cause and effect? I do not think 

 the science is good enough at this stage to make that determina- 

 tion. 



Senator Stevens. Well, let me put it this way, then. Dr. Hofman. 

 We have a very active and I think really good management system 

 for fish stocks and the recovery of the fish stocks. What manage- 

 ment do you have over the level of marine mammals today? What 

 takes of marine mammals, except for Alaska natives, are a ???? for 

 the purpose of management? 



Dr. Hofman. I am not sure I completely understand the ques- 

 tion. Senator Stevens. 



Senator Stevens. Well, what are you going to do about the Col- 

 lets River, where they say that hundreds of seals took over the 

 mouth of the river, or about the estimates of the 30,000 harbor 

 seals that live in the State, compared to 2,000 in 1972? Why should 

 there be that explosion in the population of marine mammals and 

 a decrease in fisheries to the point that they are thinking now 

 about regulating the taking of salmon in Alaska waters in order to 

 protect the rivers of Washington State? 



Dr. Foster. I would answer your question as follows. I would not 

 argue with the information implying that the increase in marine 



