34 



mammal populations is the cause of the decrease in the salmon 

 populations. I think it is a correlation and that there is no justifica- 

 tion for it. 



I am not saying that it is not the case. 



Senator Stevens. Well, you do not have any management over 

 the size of marine mammal populations today. You do not have any 

 authority under this act to go out and reduce the levels of popu- 

 lation where they are to the point of destroying another food source 

 or species. 



Dr. HoFMAN. Now I understand the question. Yes, I think the 

 authority exists in the Marine Mammal Protection Act to manage 

 those populations. If the populations are determined to be within 

 their optimum sustainable level, there is a provision in the Marine 

 Mammal Protection Act which allows a State agency, a Federal 

 agency, or a private organization, a fisheries group, to come in and 

 to propose taking of marine mammals for that purpose. But the au- 

 thority exists. 



Senator Stevens. But the burden is on them to prove what you 

 say we cannot we prove, right? The burden is on them to prove 

 that the reason there are no fish going upstream is that there are 

 30,000 seals at the mouth of the river? 



Dr. HoFMAN. No, the burden in this case is to demonstrate only 

 that the marine mammal population is above its msiximum net pro- 

 ductivity level. 



Senator Stevens. Well, I suggest to you that it is not too dif- 

 ferent from my wolves and the caribou, which I will go into at an- 

 other time. But you know the problem our State has with regard 

 to wolves and caribou? 



Dr. HoFMAN. I do. 



Senator Stevens, There are people who believe that the goal 

 ought to be zero taking of any marine mammal ever. And you are 

 fostering this more than you are supporting the balance that 

 should be there for the total management of the ecosystem. 



Dr. Foster, do you want to talk? 



Dr. Foster. Yes, I just wanted to say that our proposal does 

 allow for lethal takes. As Bob said, even under the interim exemp- 

 tion, we have the authority to do that. But we make it very clear 

 in this proposal 



Senator Stevens. Have you ever done it? 



Dr. Foster. Well, no one has actually ever asked and, no, we 

 have not done it. But I do expect that we will get some requests 

 over the next months. 



Senator Stevens. Well, I am going to have some other questions, 

 Mr. Chairman. I would like to add just one thing, though, about 

 the fishermen. I told the chairman on the way over to the floor 

 about a friend of mine up in the north country who complained to 

 me that he was having trouble with the FAA. I went to see him. 



He had a nice summer camp with a tent and was flying 20 hours 

 a day. And he said that he was in trouble with the FAA. And I 

 said, "Well, are you doing your maintenance on time?" And he said, 

 "Sure." He pulled out his cot, where he had all of these forms. They 

 were all checked off. He had done them. He had the dates and had 

 done them. 



