38 



The issue is what do we do if the catch is greater than the cal- 

 culated PBR. Do we limit catch and allocate the quota among the 

 various users? This is an area, at least to me, that is gray in the 

 proposal from the industry and environmental community. In the 

 introduction, as I read it, they say the^ want to avoid quotas and 

 allocations among possible competing fisheries. But I do not know 

 how they propose, then, to deal with the situation when the actual 

 take is greater than would be biologically acceptable. I do not know 

 the answer to that question. 



Senator Kerry. Well, we will address that with them. 



Before we wrap up this panel, the conservation team effort is one 

 that you seem to have afforded a certain amount of positive com- 

 ment. But, on the other hand, you think they are too broad and too 

 undefined. You are concerned about it. I mean, they still leave the 

 power in the hands of the Secretary, ultimately, to make a decision, 

 but they provide a certain flexibility. That does not appeal to you? 



Dr. Foster. No, I think I said there are several aspects of it that 

 do appeal to us. In fact, we would like very much 



Senator Kerry, To build on that? 



Dr. Foster [continuing]. To use this concept. And we will just 

 have to work with them as to exactly what the role would be. Be- 

 cause I think that the role would determine the kinds of people 

 that would serve on these teams. 



Senator Kerry. What concerns you the most about the working 

 group proposal? 



What red flag comes up in front of you and says to you, this real- 

 ly will not work, we cannot accept this, because it really threatens 

 what we are trying to do? 



Dr. Foster. Well, I think the issue that I mentioned earlier, the 

 burden -of-pr oof issue, the fact that it seems to us — and we do need 

 to talk to them some more, but it seems to us that their way of 

 classifying stocks and not classifying fisheries would — we think we 

 would lose a lot of information in that process, and a lot of control. 



Sometimes I think that part of our problem is we do not reallv 

 understand yet exactly how their process would work, and I think 

 that with a few more conversations we might be able to come up 

 with something. 



Senator Kerry, It seems to me there ought to be a ground here 

 to pull these efforts together. After all, you do have a coalition here 

 of the industry and conservation groups, and both have com- 

 promised. It is fairly significant, I think, when you get two passion- 

 ately involved entities with very different concerns coming to the 

 table and agn^eeing on something. 



You know, one's goal is to go out and catch and perhaps not be 

 as intimately involved in the oyproduct of that eaten, and the oth- 

 er's goal is to be totally involved in the byproduct and to protect 

 it. They say, we think we have a good way to do this. 



It seems to me that since you are the governmental entity whose 

 fundamental goal is not dissimilar to at least the goal of one of 

 those groups, the fact that they have signed off ought to interest 

 you. 



Dr. Foster, And it does. 



Senator Kerry, I would think there may be a ground here to try 

 to marry the best of both efforts, conceivably. 



