40 



and where we should be targeting our resources. I think there is 

 categorical agreement on that. 



If you look at the two proposals, the issue of critical stocks ver- 

 sus the way they are identified, as I understand them, in the envi- 

 ronmental community/industry proposal three variables are consid- 

 ered — ^the size of the stock, the trend, and the level of the inciden- 

 tal take. 



It is not clear what happens if you do not know anyone of them. 

 In the National Marine Fisheries Service proposal, they classify 

 stocks as alpha and beta stocks, and then they classify fisneries ac- 

 cording to the level of take, so it would be possible to identify a pri- 

 ority stock under the National Marine Fisneries Service's proposal 

 simply because we know that there is a high level of take. 



If we are dealing with a pelagic species like Risso's dolphins, for 

 example, that we Know very little about, to guess the population 

 level within an order of magnitude would be almost impossible. 

 There is no information on trends. Under the National Marine 

 Fisheries proposal there would be the possibility of identifying that 

 species and the fishery as something that we should look at. 



This may be an area where the proposal from the environmental 

 community and the fishing industry simply is not fleshed out 

 enough. I think with that, I will stop, unless you have another 

 question. 



Senator Kerry. Thank you very much. We are going to move on 

 to the next panel. We will follow up with you. We will have plenty 

 of time to slug this out in our offices and conversations, and I am 

 sure we will get together and come up with a good proposal, so we 

 look forward to doing that. 



Senator Stevens. 



Senator Stevens. Mr. Chairman, before Dr. Foster and Dr. Hof- 

 man leave, is it possible that we could put together sort of a work- 

 ing team comprised of your people and people from this industry/ 

 environmental group and our committee staff to see if we could 

 mark up the two and make them compatible without a battle? 



Senator Kerry. Absolutely. 



Senator Stevens. We are not really qualified for this battle. I am 

 not armed for it. I think we need the help of all three groups to 

 advise us. 



Senator Kerry. I totally agree. What I think we would like to do 

 if we can is in short order get a meeting of all the parties together, 

 try to work it out a little bit separately, and then come together 

 as a group. 



I think we would like to do that. I think it makes a lot of sense, 

 and I intend for us to do that. Hopefully, I am sure we would get 

 everybody agreeing and come up with a good proposal and will 

 move it through here rapidly. 



Senator Stevens. Thank you very much. 



Senator Kerry. Thank you. We appreciate it. 



May we ask our second panel to come forward and affirm every- 

 thing I just said? 



Senator Kerry. Ms. ludicello, we are going to begin with you and 

 roll down the line here. We will ask each of you to try to hold to 

 the green lightered light routine, and then we will have some time 

 for a dialog. We would appreciate it. Thank you. 



