30 



cies. You can take a long time to get there and let the Alaska na- 

 tives take more up front, or you can do it faster. 



Senator Stevens. We have to go vote. You take the Alaska Es- 

 kimo coastline and you start it at Maine and do you know where 

 you end up? New Orleans. What we are saying is that if a stock 

 was being taken more heavily at Point Barrow, and you had that 

 information available, you could say to the people, you cannot take 

 mammals now because our indications are that there is too much 

 take, that the take is exceeding the legal limits. I see an additional 

 step here. 



Again, the burden of proof now is on the Secretary. But I do not 

 see that in this negotiated proposal because it says you can make 

 a policy decision about the recovery, meaning you could stretch out 

 the amount that could be taken over a period of time. Instead of 

 taking 10 a year, you could take 10 every 2 years. Is that what this 

 says? 



Dr. Foster. No. What that means is instead of taking 10 years 

 to recover the marine mammal stock, you could take 50 years to 

 recover the marine mammal stock, which would mean that the na- 

 tives could take more right now. They could exceed the rec- 

 ommended level. 



Senator Stevens. But you do not see it the other way around. 

 If you can lengthen it, can you not shorten it? 



Dr. Foster. Well, you could. 



Senator Stevens. The decision on timing and recovery shall re- 

 flect the needs of subsistence users. It does not say it has to. 



Dr. Foster. No, but the underlying assumption 



Senator Stevens. If I am taking 10 now, you are not going to tell 

 me that in order to stretch it out I can only take 5? 



Dr. Foster. No. You see, the underlying assumption in both pro- 

 posals, ours and the negotiated proposal, is that subsistence users 

 have a right to take. 



Senator Kerry. We are going to stand in recess just for a few 

 minutes. We will vote, and then we will come right back. We stand 

 in recess. 



[A brief recess was taken.] 



Senator Kerry. The hearing will come back to order. 



We apologize. We had two votes back to back. Only Senator Ste- 

 vens could tell you what we just did. 



Senator, we will come back to you. We will pick up where you 

 left off if you would like. 



Senator Stevens. Thank you. 



If I may, I have in front of me. Dr. Foster and Dr. Hofman, an 

 AP daily news story from Tacoma, WA, which talks about this act. 

 And the threat has changed, according to this. Well, let me read 

 one little excerpt: 



Biologists estimate there are more than 30,000 harbor seals now living year-round 

 in the State, compared with only 2,000 in 1972. 



There are other similar estimates of increases in the marine 

 mammal populations. I had a story from the Kodiak Daily Mirror 

 concerning the increase in the sea otter population, and how the 

 population was seriously threatened in the past and now has sub- 

 stantial numbers. 



