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in the Bering Sea or the Gulf of Alaska, we cannot effectively man- 

 age the fisheries. So, this is not a problem, in my view, that is 

 unique to marine mammals. 



Senator Kerry. I absolutely agree with that. Senator Stevens. 



Senator Stevens. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think we have 

 votes here in just a minute, and I will want to come back and go 

 into some things. 



But let me start out with where I am coming from. We have 

 three substantial communities in my State that are involved here — 

 the commercial fishing people, the Alaska natives, and a very inter- 

 ested environmental group. I hear some new terms here, so I want 

 to sort them out if I may. They relate to your question of who has 

 the burden of proof. Dr. Foster. 



You used the statement, and I wrote it down, that you were look- 

 ing at critical species, those threatened, endangered, or depleted. 

 You just used that term. This proposal before us establishes a new 

 listing of critical species, critical stocks some people say. 



I am not sure whether I am hearing a new term that amounts 

 to a stock or a species that is threatened of being threatened, or 

 whether we are still hearing the same listing that you referred to 

 as those that are currently threatened, endangered, or depleted. 

 Now, which is it? 



Dr. Foster. I can explain to you. I should have clarified. What 

 we are saying is that our so-called alpha stock, those marine mam- 

 mal stocks that we will focus more attention on, are those stocks 

 that are either endangered, threatened, or depleted, or stocks 

 where the take exceeds the PBR so that then 



Senator Stevens. Now, that is something new that is not in the 

 law right now, that last part, right? 



Dr. Foster. This is our way of classifying the stock. 



Senator Stevens. Do you classify them today under existing law 

 that way? 



Dr. Foster. No, under the proposal. 



Senator Stevens. Existing law only deals with threatened, en- 

 dangered or depleted. Now, this new alpha stock list of yours, does 

 it include more than threatened, endangered, or depleted species? 



Dr. Foster. Yes. But this is not a listing in the sense of listing 

 under the ESA We are trying to figure out a way to classify the 

 marine mammal stock into really two categories, those that are in 

 trouble or on their way to being in trouble possibly, and those that 

 are not in trouble. 



Senator Stevens. We have got a vote, so let me be rude if I may, 

 I am sorry and I apologize about it, but I want to pursue this be- 

 fore I lose — if I walk over there and come back, I may not have the 

 same idea in my mind. 



Is the proposal from the industry environmental group, which in- 

 cludes critical stocks, the same as your alpha group? 



Dr. Foster. Yes, I think so. Would you think so? 



Dr. Eagle. It is very similar. It is not exact, but it is very, very 

 similar. 



Senator Stevens. All right. Well, let me put on my native hat 

 now. I have got the right, as an Alaska native, to intentionally take 

 species for subsistence that you are trying to regulate over there 



