84 



candidate for the threatened species Hst at some point if the trend 

 in their population decHne does not reverse. 



In order to avoid any issue of regulation of subsistence, we just 

 left it on the table and decided not to deal with it. Harbor seals 

 are primarily taken by subsistence users, a large part in my area 

 by my villages. The first would be to form a conservation team. 

 Subsistence users would be part of the conservation team. If they 

 did not agree to the discussions there would be no consensus. The 

 issue would go back to the Secretary. The Secretary would be able 

 to do nothing unless the species is designated under preexisting 

 law as depleted, threatened, or endangered. 



We advocated that approach because we want a forum before 

 there is a listing under the Endangered Species Act, because we 

 have already tasted what it is like to be regulated under the En- 

 dangered Species Act. We want a prethreatened species forum 

 where we can sit down as a group and come up with a plan that 

 minimizes impacts on subsistence users and minimizes impacts on 

 commercial fishermen, and, if we can, conduct it on a voluntary 

 basis to avoid a threatened species listing. 



If those animals get listed under ESA, and the only taker of har- 

 bor seals is Alaska Native subsistence users and the stock starts 

 to crash toward the endangered level, then the regulatory require- 

 ments that will be imposed will be much more Draconian 5 or 10 

 years fi^om now than if we try and work them out with time and 

 in a cooperative forum. 



So, Senator, this was our idea, and we pushed it very aggres- 

 sively. 



Senator Stevens. Well, that is good. I am glad to have that in 

 the record, too. I have to tell you, when I read it I misunderstood 

 it, because it looked to me like it might create a "threatened to be 

 threatened" list, which people have talked about for animals on 

 shore. I had not heard it for the marine environment, but we do 

 have a proposal in the Endangered Species Act to talk about a new 

 listing before being threatened. I thought that is what I was seeing 

 here, too. 



Mr. Oilman. And the difference, the substantive difference be- 

 tween Alaska harbor seals and walrus on the west coast of Alaska 

 is that the Government has sufficient information to designate har- 

 bor seals as depleted. The Government does not have sufficient in- 

 formation to designate walrus. So, under our concept you could not 

 form a conservation team on walrus because they do not have any 

 regulatory authority over nondepleted species when subsistence is 

 the only take or the primary take. 



Senator Stevens. Let me go back to all of your. Anyone who 

 wants to comment be my guest. 



Neither proposal before us deals with the critical issue of fund- 

 ing. We have various estimates of what the proposal would cost. 

 There are not any registration fees in the negotiated proposal. 

 There are not any user fees. There is no proposed new way to pay 

 this cost. And yet, the bill that NOAA works under is already over- 

 spent for this year. There is no money for proposed individual fish- 

 ing quotas, or even for some existing programs in the NOAA budg- 

 et. 



