86 



Senator Stevens, Well, I am inclined to agree with you in some 

 ways, but I do not see too many rich little old ladies in tennis shoes 

 who are going to put up money to save the harbor seal or the por- 

 poise, either. 



The fact of the matter is I had hoped that one of you might men- 

 tion the concept of finding some way to make those who commit 

 waste through the bycatcn and discard of fish stocks pay into a 

 fund that might help fund initiatives such as this. I am looking at 

 the problem of excessive bvcatch of nontarget species, and waste in 

 the processing of fish, and discard during the harvesting of fish. I 

 think there is an excessive amount of this. 



This is an area that the environmental community could work 

 with us on, and if those people who are committing it want to con- 

 tinue to be wasteful, they ought to pay for the species and stocks 

 that they are denying otners. It would be possible, I think, to find 

 some other sources of funding. But that is for the Magnuson Act, 

 not for this act. 



Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 



Senator Kerry. Thank you very much, Senator Stevens. Senator 

 Gorton. 



Senator Gorton. Mr. Chairman, you and Senator Stevens have 

 covered most of the very sensitive areas of this proposal, and I 

 would just like to ask for the comments of, I suspect, probably the 

 three on this panel who are interested in it on the specific problem 

 with respect to takings in Peugeot Sound, and I guess both for me 

 and the Senator for Oregon along the Columbia River. 



California sea lions mostly congregating at the head of the Lake 

 Washington ship canal have caused such a dramatic decline in the 

 steelhead salmon run as to cause it to be on the verge of being list- 

 ed under the Endangered Species Act. I note some of the require- 

 ments here before a taking can take place, including all possible 

 steps to do something other than taking or killing those mammals. 

 But over the course of the last several years we have used fake 

 killer whale sounds, rubber tipped arrows, underwater fireworks — 

 they have even trapped and transported California sea lions and 

 taken them all the way to California. They are brilliant mammals. 

 They can find their way back to Peugeot Sound from California. 

 And they do, a place at which they can feed in such luxury. 



On the Columbia River, some 2,000 seals and sea lions are com- 

 ing up the Columbia River practically to totally fresh water, com- 

 f>eting with commercial fishermen. We had hundreds of them on a 

 ittle sandbar at the mouth of the Cowlitz River, which is 50 miles 

 or more up the Columbia, resting between feeding. 



I guess my question is. Do you think that this particular applica- 

 tion is really covered by either the NMFS proposal or by the com- 

 promise proposal? If either were adopted, would we have to go 

 through this whole process again, a process which for all practical 

 purposes has been completed? And is there or should there be a 

 provision for the situation of marine mammals who literally are 

 contributing to the endangerment of various salmon species within 

 constricted waterways such as Peugeot Sound and the head of 

 some of its lakes and streams or the Columbia River. 



I think there are probably three of you here who are — I am not 

 sure that the gentleman from Maine or maybe even Mr. Oilman 



