49 



A second part of that is, as we have talked about here, sales that 

 are made really for a whole host of other purposes, such as wildlife 

 habitat or fuel reduction, for restoring a devastated forest because 

 of tornadoes or fire or what-have-you; it may be that the most ef- 

 fective means of preparing that forest for regeneration is through a 

 timber sale. 



Those are other-purpose sales that are still looked at as a part of 

 a below-cost forest. 



And then a third component that we all talk about and relate to, 

 generally, is the commercial timber sale, the wood fiber production 

 for the Nation, the need for the mill. There are components here 

 that we tend to want to put together and evaluate. I think that as 

 we move to an ecosystem management approach, all of these fac- 

 tors are going to have to be looked at because they all play an im- 

 portant part in the whole policy of below-cost sales. We have to 

 look at all those three components because they are separate. They 

 are really separable items, I think, in doing that total job of ecosys- 

 tem management and forest management. 



So I think that is an important part as we consider the policy of 

 where we are headed with this particular issue. 



Senator Daschle. I have some more questions, but I want to ask 

 Senator Craig if he has additional questions. 



Senator Craig. Jim, the question you asked a moment ago about 

 a sale and helicopter logging versus road construction — I think I 

 have been on the other side of that issue looking at it because of 

 some problems with concern for watershed and salmon. Is that the 

 Scott salvage you are talking of? 



Mr. Riley. Actually, that was one that was in the package that 

 we looked at. 



Senator Craig. For the record, Mr. Chairman, it was interesting. 

 I think one of them was a 24 million board foot sale, and because of 

 those kinds of concerns, it got scaled back to about 14. And actual- 

 ly, there was a decision to leave about $2,000 worth of standing 

 trees per acre that were dead, burned, in place for environmental 

 reasons. So there was a very real trade-off and a balance in that 

 sale because of the concern for watershed quality and salmon as an 

 endangered species. 



Jim, I did want to ask a question of you in relation to an opening 

 comment that Mr. Francis made that frustrated me a little bit. He 

 alluded to the fact that all the good commercial ground was owned 

 by private interests, and the public ground had been leftover, and 

 therefore, less productive. 



I grew up around Clearwater and the Panhandle and the Nez 

 Perce, and saw some phenomenally productive forests, public 

 timber land. Generally speaking, at least in Idaho — and I would 

 ask for your observation on this — is it not true that some of our 

 most productive timber lands are publicly managed Forest Service 

 lands? 



Mr. Riley. No question about that. There are high-site Forest 

 Service lands that are as productive as anything that is owned by 

 the private sector in Idaho. 



Senator Craig. I know the Nez Perce has that kind of land. Be- 

 cause it is one of the forests that has been listed as below cost, 

 what are the consequences as relates to community and industry 



